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Vikings showing their lack of age at cornerbackVikings rookies have played the third-most defensive snaps.Mike Zimmer is running third in a race his old-school defensive mind would have preferred skipping out on, especially in the middle of a global pandemic.
A proud member of Bill Parcells' coaching tree, Zimmer essentially subscribes to the theory that most rookies not named Lawrence Taylor aren't to be trusted as starters.
And yet, according to Pro Football Focus, seven rookies have played a combined 1,876 defensive snaps as the Vikings (6-7) head into what's essentially a playoff game against the Bears (6-7) at U.S. Bank Stadium on Sunday.
Only two teams, per Sportradar, have more defensive snaps by rookies this season.
"Who's had more than we have?" asked Zimmer, sounding surprised he wasn't leading the league.
Carolina, sporting an NFC-worst 4-9 record, has 2,769. Jacksonville, riding a 12-game losing streak, is next at 2,263.
"Oh, yeah," Zimmer said. "I knew Carolina had a bunch, too."
He would have even more if cornerback Cameron Dantzler and defensive end D.J. Wonnum hadn't missed a combined six games because of injuries. But even as it stands now, the Vikings have 951 more rookie defensive snaps than the Bears and 1,270 more than a Packers team that clinched its second straight NFC North title last week.
"We've had to change [the defense] several times based on what they can handle and things like that," Zimmer said. "Now, it's not so much. They can handle more. At the beginning, especially not having OTAs [because of COVID-19 limitations], it was kind of trial by fire, I guess is the best way to say it."
In early November, as the Vikings were clawing back from a 1-5 start, Zimmer had an idea for how to simplify things for a defense starting two rookies at cornerback. The man whose forte is schooling defensive backs called on his assistant, Mary Redmond, to search the archives for a particular game plan Zimmer used as Cowboys defensive coordinator 17 years ago when NFL schemes weren't quite as complex as they are today.
https://www.startribune.com/vikings-show...573432991/
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
This.
I've said it before...the guy's been dealt a shitty set of circumstances during his time here and has still done well. Hopefully next year there will be a semblance of normalcy and we can all root for a contender.
Now, about that Cousins guy.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
Completely agree Sticky.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
I think he is a very average coach and we have the years to show it. I think he has shown that he is a very good defensive coach but average as a whole team coach. His teams are way to inconsistent from game to game.
I'm ready to move on and infuse some youth and different thinking on all sides of the ball. I do like having Zimmer through this year because as the article indicates he is good with young CB's so maybe next year a new coach can come in and build off of that - the whole team.
Quote: @StickyBun said:
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
He has brought some rookies along well this season and kudos for that. Kudos also to the scouting staff for identifying a couple of CBs in Dantzler and Gladney who were more ready than most rookies.
Thing is - why did this defense need such mass overhaul this season? I'm not blaming the staff for injuries or Covid opt-outs, but they sent 3 veteran CBs packing. Money was a factor, but wouldn't they have come up with money to keep at least one of Rhodes, Waynes, or Alexander, knowing the CB cupboard was nearly bare? The biggest reason they left is because Zimmer, "whose forte is schooling defensive backs", couldn't develop Waynes or Alexander, his own hand-picked high draft choices, to become good CBs in their first 4 years. Losing Alexander for a paltry 1-year $4M deal is pretty surprising. Don't these players love playing for defensive guru Mike Zimmer?? And how has Rhodes re-emerged as a great starting CB on the best defense in the NFL? I thought he was physically damaged or over the hill (at 29)? Turns out he just needed some attitude and form adjustment...funny how he didn't get that here from the guy people love to call "the cornerback whisperer". What did Zimmer whisper to Rhodes - "You suck"?? (Probably about what he says to Bailey.)
So I'll give Zimmer credit for doing some good work patching up the defense backfield this year - but can you declare him a great coach if he's responsible for that unit evaporating after last season? Do you overlook his failure to build a long-term unit and expect it will be any different when Gladney and Dantzler's rookie contracts are done?
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
....yet Zimmer is a bad coach to some. He's not. Is he the best? Nope. But he sure as hell isn't close to the worst, either. The guy has been dealt a ton of challenges in his time in Minnesota and has risen above them most times.
He has brought some rookies along well this season and kudos for that. Kudos also to the scouting staff for identifying a couple of CBs in Dantzler and Gladney who were more ready than most rookies.
Thing is - why did this defense need such mass overhaul this season? I'm not blaming the staff for injuries or Covid opt-outs, but they sent 3 veteran CBs packing. Money was a factor, but wouldn't they have come up with money to keep at least one of Rhodes, Waynes, or Alexander, knowing the CB cupboard was nearly bare? The biggest reason they left is because Zimmer, "whose forte is schooling defensive backs", couldn't develop Waynes or Alexander, his own hand-picked high draft choices, to become good CBs in their first 4 years. Losing Alexander for a paltry 1-year $4M deal is pretty surprising. Don't these players love playing for defensive guru Mike Zimmer?? And how has Rhodes re-emerged as a great starting CB on the best defense in the NFL? I thought he was physically damaged or over the hill (at 29)? Turns out he just needed some attitude and form adjustment...funny how he didn't get that here from the guy people love to call "the cornerback whisperer". What did Zimmer whisper to Rhodes - "You suck"?? (Probably about what he says to Bailey.)
So I'll give Zimmer credit for doing some good work patching up the defense backfield this year - but can you declare him a great coach if he's responsible for that unit evaporating after last season? Do you overlook his failure to build a long-term unit and expect it will be any different when Gladney and Dantzler's rookie contracts are done?
I don't think the Vikings were going to pay anywhere near what the Bengals did for Waynes. He was paid a hefty sum for what I'd consider an above average starter.
I agree with you on Mac. I was hoping they'd re-sign him, especially after seeing what he got from the Bengals. But it takes two to tango, and maybe he just didn't want to be back. I remember there was some talk of tension last year after he played a meaningless game 16 where he got hurt, so may that had something to do with it?
As for Rhodes, I saw this article and thought it best represents what happened with him. What the article doesn't mention is his high cap hit that probably also had something to do with him being let go.
https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/vikings-mailbag-andre-pattersons-future-draft-priorities-defensive-end-depth/
@SamEkstrom is there any reason Zimmer hasn’t gotten more blame for not scheming to help his players, ie Rhodes’s performance in 2019 vs 2020? Why not play cover two with more zone last year when he was struggling?
In the specific case of Xavier Rhodes, it’s a fair question, but I think it’s reasonable that Zimmer wasn’t going to change his bread-and-butter system for all 11 players to cater to a struggling one. Zimmer responded to Rhodes’ issues by asking him to stop playing press and to focus more on protecting against deep throws. He also rotated Rhodes out of games more quickly to keep him fresh. Rhodes was so rarely 100% healthy in 2018-19 that I’m not sure a schematic switch would’ve solved things.More broadly, the Vikings have responded to coverage woes this year with more Cover 2. Considering they’re top five in both third-down defense and red zone defense, I’d say Zimmer has largely accomplished what he set out to do with a young defense.
"We've had to change [the defense] several times based on what they can handle and things like that," Zimmer said. "Now, it's not so much. They can handle more. At the beginning, especially not having OTAs [because of COVID-19 limitations], it was kind of trial by fire, I guess is the best way to say it."
Zimmer dogs the shit out of rookie Cornerbacks from Mini camp all the way to the start of regular season.
After 6 months's in person of working with them, they start to get it.
This year that time couldn't happen.
"More broadly, the Vikings have responded to coverage woes this year with more Cover 2. Considering they’re top five in both third-down defense and red zone defense, I’d say Zimmer has largely accomplished what he set out to do with a young defense."
So why did ne never play cover 2 when he had other young CBs struggling? I suppose some will say he is learning to be flexible...I say, too little too late. Every CB who has joined this team had issues with the crazy schemes Zimmer made them learn, from Munnerlyn to Rhodes, Waynes, and Alexander. He drove a lot of talent off this team.
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