Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Wilson was a big-play all-over-the-field playmaker in college, so potentially yes.
@ MaroonBells said:
He seems inconsistent. Frequently out of place, but damned if he doesn't make a lot of big plays. If he can even it out, we might have our long-term Barr replacement.
For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the reason the Vikings were so far behind the 8-ball in terms of salary cap last spring is because they never intended to re-sign Barr.
If that's so, isn't letting your first-round picks leave before their second contract a flawed way of planning? I know Trae Waynes didn't ever fully emerge here, but it seemed like there was never intent to re-sign him, and he knew it. Maybe this looks worse because we lost some 1st-rounders to injury (Floyd, Bridgewater) and plain lousiness (Patterson, Treadwell), but sad that very few remain and it would look worse if Barr had left.
It's not that cut and dried. Again (and again) you look at the Vikings in a vacuum without considering how what they do compares to the rest of the NFL. You can look at Treadwell and say "bust, we suck at draft5ing" and not realize that the Vikings has far fewer of these than the rest of the NFL.
You might say letting Barr or Waynes leave is a mistake and that "very few remain," but the reality is that the Vikings frequently rank near the top of the NFL in the amount of their own draft picks on the roster. They were number one in 2016 and number one again last year. And very close to the top in the years between.
Context.
of course how many of those guys that we have on the roster that we drafted make a contribution on game day... (and you cant count Samias contributions to the other teams stats line :p ). sure we have some pretty good draft picks, but with Ricks approach of quantity over quality, and our cap situation most years, it stands to reason that we will have a bunch of cheap place holders that came through the draft. Ricks done a pretty decent job, but his number of picks every draft should have him landing a few extra on the roster when all things are factored in. not being able to find a QB, DTs, and OL in the draft have certainly hurt our current position.
Wilson seems hungry to be a starter.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Wilson was a big-play all-over-the-field playmaker in college, so potentially yes.
@ MaroonBells said:
He seems inconsistent. Frequently out of place, but damned if he doesn't make a lot of big plays. If he can even it out, we might have our long-term Barr replacement.
For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the reason the Vikings were so far behind the 8-ball in terms of salary cap last spring is because they never intended to re-sign Barr.
If that's so, isn't letting your first-round picks leave before their second contract a flawed way of planning? I know Trae Waynes didn't ever fully emerge here, but it seemed like there was never intent to re-sign him, and he knew it. Maybe this looks worse because we lost some 1st-rounders to injury (Floyd, Bridgewater) and plain lousiness (Patterson, Treadwell), but sad that very few remain and it would look worse if Barr had left.
It's not that cut and dried. Again (and again) you look at the Vikings in a vacuum without considering how what they do compares to the rest of the NFL. You can look at Treadwell and say "bust, we suck at draft5ing" and not realize that the Vikings has far fewer of these than the rest of the NFL.
You might say letting Barr or Waynes leave is a mistake and that "very few remain," but the reality is that the Vikings frequently rank near the top of the NFL in the amount of their own draft picks on the roster. They were number one in 2016 and number one again last year. And very close to the top in the years between.
Context. not being able to find a QB, DTs, and OL in the draft have certainly hurt our current position.
Teddy Bridgewater, Sharif Floyd, Brian O'Neill and Garrett Bradbuy are very clearly not misses. Ponder was. We'll have to wait and see on Cleveland. But, yeah, Samia looks more and more like a bad pick every day, with the Vikings contributing heavily to the NFL's meager 29% hit rate on 4th round OLs.
I say it every year and I'll say it again, if I'm a GM, I use one pick from the 2nd or 3rd round on an OL. You do that every year whether you need one or not and you should never have to burn a valuable 1st rounder on an OL again, which in my opinion does not produce adequate ROI.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Wilson was a big-play all-over-the-field playmaker in college, so potentially yes.
@ MaroonBells said:
He seems inconsistent. Frequently out of place, but damned if he doesn't make a lot of big plays. If he can even it out, we might have our long-term Barr replacement.
For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the reason the Vikings were so far behind the 8-ball in terms of salary cap last spring is because they never intended to re-sign Barr.
If that's so, isn't letting your first-round picks leave before their second contract a flawed way of planning? I know Trae Waynes didn't ever fully emerge here, but it seemed like there was never intent to re-sign him, and he knew it. Maybe this looks worse because we lost some 1st-rounders to injury (Floyd, Bridgewater) and plain lousiness (Patterson, Treadwell), but sad that very few remain and it would look worse if Barr had left.
It's not that cut and dried. Again (and again) you look at the Vikings in a vacuum without considering how what they do compares to the rest of the NFL. You can look at Treadwell and say "bust, we suck at draft5ing" and not realize that the Vikings has far fewer of these than the rest of the NFL.
You might say letting Barr or Waynes leave is a mistake and that "very few remain," but the reality is that the Vikings frequently rank near the top of the NFL in the amount of their own draft picks on the roster. They were number one in 2016 and number one again last year. And very close to the top in the years between.
Context. not being able to find a QB, DTs, and OL in the draft have certainly hurt our current position.
Teddy Bridgewater, Sharif Floyd, Brian O'Neill and Garrett Bradbuy are very clearly not misses. Ponder was. We'll have to wait and see on Cleveland. But, yeah, Samia looks more and more like a bad pick every day, with the Vikings contributing heavily to the NFL's meager 29% hit rate on 4th round OLs.
I say it every year and I'll say it again, if I'm a GM, I use one pick from the 2nd or 3rd round on an OL. You do that every year whether you need one or not and you should never have to burn a valuable 1st rounder on an OL again, which in my opinion does not produce adequate ROI.
we are going to mostly agree on this, but you named 4 players over 14 (?) years of Rick drafting ( 8 of which he has had sole control) , at positions that account for over 1/3 of our starting spots. As far Cleveland I am wondering WTF is up with him because at the very least we should hope he could plug in at LG by now and kick Dozier to RG until Elf gets back.
I like the notion of dedicating a day 2 pick to OL every year, seems like a good use of what would normally just be turned into a 4th and 3-7th round picks.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Wilson was a big-play all-over-the-field playmaker in college, so potentially yes.
@ MaroonBells said:
He seems inconsistent. Frequently out of place, but damned if he doesn't make a lot of big plays. If he can even it out, we might have our long-term Barr replacement.
For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the reason the Vikings were so far behind the 8-ball in terms of salary cap last spring is because they never intended to re-sign Barr.
If that's so, isn't letting your first-round picks leave before their second contract a flawed way of planning? I know Trae Waynes didn't ever fully emerge here, but it seemed like there was never intent to re-sign him, and he knew it. Maybe this looks worse because we lost some 1st-rounders to injury (Floyd, Bridgewater) and plain lousiness (Patterson, Treadwell), but sad that very few remain and it would look worse if Barr had left.
It's not that cut and dried. Again (and again) you look at the Vikings in a vacuum without considering how what they do compares to the rest of the NFL. You can look at Treadwell and say "bust, we suck at draft5ing" and not realize that the Vikings has far fewer of these than the rest of the NFL.
You might say letting Barr or Waynes leave is a mistake and that "very few remain," but the reality is that the Vikings frequently rank near the top of the NFL in the amount of their own draft picks on the roster. They were number one in 2016 and number one again last year. And very close to the top in the years between.
Context. not being able to find a QB, DTs, and OL in the draft have certainly hurt our current position.
Teddy Bridgewater, Sharif Floyd, Brian O'Neill and Garrett Bradbuy are very clearly not misses. Ponder was. We'll have to wait and see on Cleveland. But, yeah, Samia looks more and more like a bad pick every day, with the Vikings contributing heavily to the NFL's meager 29% hit rate on 4th round OLs.
I say it every year and I'll say it again, if I'm a GM, I use one pick from the 2nd or 3rd round on an OL. You do that every year whether you need one or not and you should never have to burn a valuable 1st rounder on an OL again, which in my opinion does not produce adequate ROI.
we are going to mostly agree on this, but you named 4 players over 14 (?) years of Rick drafting ( 8 of which he has had sole control) , at positions that account for over 1/3 of our starting spots. As far Cleveland I am wondering WTF is up with him because at the very least we should hope he could plug in at LG by now and kick Dozier to RG until Elf gets back.
I like the notion of dedicating a day 2 pick to OL every year, seems like a good use of what would normally just be turned into a 4th and 3-7th round picks.
Especially when you consider there's a 6th round rookie starting at LG in New England and getting raves. Seriously, grading out as one of the best guards in the NFL.
But I suspect he was more NFL ready than Cleveland. Cleveland's biggest problem is that he's a project type player. A little undersized, small school coaching, no OTA, no preseason. He was drafted for upside like O'Neill. But it makes you wonder...are coaches just afraid of players like that? Would O'Neill have even gotten a chance his rookie season if Hill doesn't get hurt?
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
Wilson was a big-play all-over-the-field playmaker in college, so potentially yes.
@ MaroonBells said:
He seems inconsistent. Frequently out of place, but damned if he doesn't make a lot of big plays. If he can even it out, we might have our long-term Barr replacement.
For what it's worth, I'm convinced that the reason the Vikings were so far behind the 8-ball in terms of salary cap last spring is because they never intended to re-sign Barr.
If that's so, isn't letting your first-round picks leave before their second contract a flawed way of planning? I know Trae Waynes didn't ever fully emerge here, but it seemed like there was never intent to re-sign him, and he knew it. Maybe this looks worse because we lost some 1st-rounders to injury (Floyd, Bridgewater) and plain lousiness (Patterson, Treadwell), but sad that very few remain and it would look worse if Barr had left.
It's not that cut and dried. Again (and again) you look at the Vikings in a vacuum without considering how what they do compares to the rest of the NFL. You can look at Treadwell and say "bust, we suck at draft5ing" and not realize that the Vikings has far fewer of these than the rest of the NFL.
You might say letting Barr or Waynes leave is a mistake and that "very few remain," but the reality is that the Vikings frequently rank near the top of the NFL in the amount of their own draft picks on the roster. They were number one in 2016 and number one again last year. And very close to the top in the years between.
Context. not being able to find a QB, DTs, and OL in the draft have certainly hurt our current position.
Teddy Bridgewater, Sharif Floyd, Brian O'Neill and Garrett Bradbuy are very clearly not misses. Ponder was. We'll have to wait and see on Cleveland. But, yeah, Samia looks more and more like a bad pick every day, with the Vikings contributing heavily to the NFL's meager 29% hit rate on 4th round OLs.
I say it every year and I'll say it again, if I'm a GM, I use one pick from the 2nd or 3rd round on an OL. You do that every year whether you need one or not and you should never have to burn a valuable 1st rounder on an OL again, which in my opinion does not produce adequate ROI.
we are going to mostly agree on this, but you named 4 players over 14 (?) years of Rick drafting ( 8 of which he has had sole control) , at positions that account for over 1/3 of our starting spots. As far Cleveland I am wondering WTF is up with him because at the very least we should hope he could plug in at LG by now and kick Dozier to RG until Elf gets back.
I like the notion of dedicating a day 2 pick to OL every year, seems like a good use of what would normally just be turned into a 4th and 3-7th round picks.
Especially when you consider there's a 6th round rookie starting at LG in New England and getting raves. Seriously, grading out as one of the best guards in the NFL.
But I suspect he was more NFL ready than Cleveland. Cleveland's biggest problem is that he's a project type player. A little undersized, small school coaching, no OTA, no preseason. He was drafted for upside like O'Neill. But it makes you wonder...are coaches just afraid of players like that? Would O'Neill have even gotten a chance his rookie season if Hill doesn't get hurt?
and remember Hill on the right side was nothing to write home about, it was a night and day improvement when ONeill got in there. how the coaches couldnt have seen enough in practice to know that was a likelihood is a real head scratcher IMO.
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