You Like That?

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@Canthony said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Canthony said:

@JimmyinSD said:

@Canthony said:

@MaroonBells said:

@Canthony said:

@MaroonBells said:
Cargo shorts? What is this, 1997? And I don't trust anyone who doesn't like Cilantro. I no longer support an extension. Jordan Love at 25. 

I was high on Love as well. The only issue is that I think people are comparing him to Mahomes. Mahomes, IIRC, was good at keeping his eyes down the field and reading defenses along when improvising when needed. Love struggles with that and will throw into coverage a ton like he doesn't understand how to read a defense. I have read things on his draft bios to back that as well. 

Is Love the best choice... Or is he another arm talent that wont get it when it comes to the NFL

Like Love, Mahomes threw a lot of hero balls. But make sure you're comparing apples to apples and comparing the players as draft picks and don't let Mahomes' success as a pro enter into it. Like Mahomes, Love comes with some risk. 

That said, I was just joking about taking Love at 25. I like him. But I think our best option is to extend Cousins. Our model for improvement is the 49ers, not the Chiefs. 

I am totally against extending Cousins. He couldn't even lead a team in a two hand touch pro bowl game and got into his own head. I think I am just done watching this type of QB. Everything has to go perfect in order for him to succeed I feel and that is hard to watch. 

Mahomes was good at looking down the field and seeing the defense, Love struggles at this. This is a big thing for me when it comes to QBs coming out of the draft. 

Absolutley nothing should be decided based on what happens in a pro bowl game.  There is nothing at all of merit to be gleaned from that shit show.

That would be like saying you watched Tiger in his prime, but drunk play mini golf and suck so then say he shouldn't be favored in the next golf major.

LOL that was funny. I don't actually mean that is why I feel that way about him. It just summed up who he is as a QB lol. It is just funny that he managed to totally fuck up a pro bowl game lol. If you want to believe in the clown, then so be it. It is your opinion and everyone is entitled to one. At least that is how most normal and good sided people think... 

me believe in him?  I wouldnt go that far.  I was vocally against signing him to the deal he is currently on 2 years ago as I thought it was too much for the net result and said it would end up costing us some players which it may,  and have said many times already this offseason that I wouldnt go over 28 a year to keep him as I think we have seen his ceiling and it isnt worthy of top tier QB money as he will only flounder against quality defenses if he doesnt have a much much better OL in front of him and if we need to pay for upper tier OL then why would you also pay an average QB upper tier money when you could get a similar player for less and not see much in terms of play reduction... especially in a run first offense.

I just wouldnt have brought up the pro bowl as any type of indicator of anybodies abilities.  it is to football what sherbet is to ice cream.

Agreed. I think I was bringing it up as he couldn't even stay calm in a flag football game so how could we ever expect to beat anyone of significance. It was a bad comparison and I see that now. 

I wanted Alex Smith but then was good with Cousins when Smith went to Washington. I was so wrong on Cousins. He has to have everything go perfect in order to win anything and I do not want to waste anymore time on him. I want someone with pocket presence and someone who is able to improvise when the play breaks down, and that isn't Cousins in any way shape or form. 

problem is that guy isnt available in free agency that we could fit under our cap with Cousins final year and no trade clause.    if this was a year from now I would be fine with Teddy at 20 a year on a trial period,  or somebody else that might be a stop gap guy,  and then fixing the OL with the extra cap space,  but with Kirk eating 31 this year it really doesnt work out for the Vikes as they will likely be looking at 2020 and who would come available as well as not having a viable project in the system that would be ready for an opportunity.   Cousins not really looking like the QB of the future,  and once again the team not having any quality youth at the position has really screwed the team IMO.

If I was Spielman I would go to the Wilfs and say give it to me straight... where am I at?  If I am given any job security I would tell cousins agent that I am going in a new direction in 2021 and would really prefer to move on this year and give them the opportunity to try and set up a trade to a destination of their choosing so that Kirk would be willing to get out of his no trade clause.  I would then look for a somewhat mobile QB like Teddy or other that Kubiak thinks he could work with for a few years until we are able to get the OL fixed and a new younger QB in for Kubiak to mold into a franchise type guy (that might take a few years to find)   I am just ready to get off the QB carousel and find our own young guy that will be here for the long term.

That is where I am at. Teddy would be the perfect fit here and has pocket presence and can keep a play going. I agree that we should go to Kirk and let him know he isnt part of our plans and we are moving forward. Give Teddy 20 million this year to prove he can be the guy. He comes back home, where he never would have left if it wasn't for the freak injury, and lets see what we have. I Just dont see the Wilfs signing off on that however. 

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@Ralphie said:

@MaroonBells said:
Cargo shorts? What is this, 1997?

Yeah, MB...I know the kinda shorts you prefer.

 

Where did you find that!? I thought I destroyed all of those...

[Guest]

The idea that this Line can't get fixed in time for Cousins final year is False. The team can draft an LT like kid from Houston in the 1st and sign a Tier 2 OG and immediately fix the problems. 

Remember, Josh Kline was a borderline Tier 2/3 Free Agent and look what a measurable upgrade he was from Below Replacement Level Player Remmers.

Pat Elflien is a Below Replacement Level Player. The upgrade from him to say Von Roten will be just as measurable as from Remmers to Kline.

Bradbury is League Average now but improved throughout the season and will benefit tremendously from another offseason in an NFL weight room. 

Or you could also sign Jason Peters, who just rated Top 5 at LT but will be 38 and not likely to be expensive, and draft a kid like Muti in the 2nd to replace Elf.

There seems to be some sort of groupthink here that Minnesota needs multiple years to find the best LT and LG in order to fix the Line. I don't get it. As Maroon has pointed out, San Fran has a backup Center, Journeyman RG and former bust on its interior. Staley is better than Reif, McGlinchey and O'Neill are about the same.

Another year of Dennison and Kubiak coupled with some smarter playcalling from the far more experienced Gary vs. Kevin and upgrades at LT and LG will go farther than you realize.

Those upgrades will come regardless of whether Cousins is the long term answer or not. So why the rush to move him now? He was Top 10 in a ton of categories and beat a 13-3 team on the road in overtime in the Playoffs. A 13-3 team many called the greatest 3 seed ever and picked to win it all.

This was always going to be a 3 year experiment with Kirk. And he's only getting to stay in the same system for the 2nd year in a row. However, it's a system that is perfect for him. Fix the Line, get some passing packages that don't rely on Play Action and let's see what he can do.

To abandon the plan after 2 years is just bad management. Plain and simple. 

[Guest]

@FSUVike said:
The idea that this Line can't get fixed in time for Cousins final year is False. The team can draft an LT like kid from Houston in the 1st and sign a Tier 2 OG and immediately fix the problems. 

Remember, Josh Kline was a borderline Tier 2/3 Free Agent and look what a measurable upgrade he was from Below Replacement Level Player Remmers.

Pat Elflien is a Below Replacement Level Player. The upgrade from him to say Von Roten will be just as measurable as from Remmers to Kline.

Bradbury is League Average now but improved throughout the season and will benefit tremendously from another offseason in an NFL weight room. 

Or you could also sign Jason Peters, who just rated Top 5 at LT but will be 38 and not likely to be expensive, and draft a kid like Muti in the 2nd to replace Elf.

There seems to be some sort of groupthink here that Minnesota needs multiple years to find the best LT and LG in order to fix the Line. I don't get it. As Maroon has pointed out, San Fran has a backup Center, Journeyman RG and former bust on its interior. Staley is better than Reif, McGlinchey and O'Neill are about the same.

Another year of Dennison and Kubiak coupled with some smarter playcalling from the far more experienced Gary vs. Kevin and upgrades at LT and LG will go farther than you realize.

Those upgrades will come regardless of whether Cousins is the long term answer or not. So why the rush to move him now? He was Top 10 in a ton of categories and beat a 13-3 team on the road in overtime in the Playoffs. A 13-3 team many called the greatest 3 seed ever and picked to win it all.

This was always going to be a 3 year experiment with Kirk. And he's only getting to stay in the same system for the 2nd year in a row. However, it's a system that is perfect for him. Fix the Line, get some passing packages that don't rely on Play Action and let's see what he can do.

To abandon the plan after 2 years is just bad management. Plain and simple. 

so are you extending him or are you letting him play out his deal?  

[Guest]

My scenario if I was the Owner would be to bring Rick, Mike, Kirk and Dalvin in together and tell them nobody gets extended until next offseason. If they show me a jump in Year 2 of the Kubiak Offense I'm extending all of them. If not, they all walk.

I then ask Kirk and Dalvin to leave the room and tell Rick & Mike to do what it takes to fix the O-Line so I can get a full measure of Kirk's ceiling. And tell them to get some 711 CBs for that Zone Defense. Takes CBs too long to learn the other system and they're out of time.

I need to see Kirk behind the same Line Jimmy G. has. If he wilts against the good Defenses behind a good Line I'm done with him. 

[Guest]

@FSUVike said:
My scenario if I was the Owner would be to bring Rick, Mike, Kirk and Dalvin in together and tell them nobody gets extended until next offseason. If they show me a jump in Year 2 of the Kubiak Offense I'm extending all of them. If not, they all walk.

I then ask Kirk and Dalvin to leave the room and tell Rick & Mike to do what it takes to fix the O-Line so I can get a full measure of Kirk's ceiling. And tell them to get some 711 CBs for that Zone Defense. Takes CBs too long to learn the other system and they're out of time.

I need to see Kirk behind the same Line Jimmy G. has. If he wilts against the good Defenses behind a good Line I'm done with him. 

im already there,  but we all have our own tolerance levels.

[Guest]

Based on the off-season to date, it certainly looks like Zim and Rick aren't  being extended....both coordinator positions filled internally and not a peep on the contract front for either...

[Guest]

@"BarrNone55" said:
Based on the off-season to date, it certainly looks like Zim and Rick aren't  being extended....both coordinator positions filled internally and not a peep on the contract front for either...

I tend to agree.  We will certainly get to see what a desperate Zimmer looks like next year,  as well as a Spielman draft for need.

[Guest]

@"BarrNone55" said:
Based on the off-season to date, it certainly looks like Zim and Rick aren't  being extended....both coordinator positions filled internally and not a peep on the contract front for either...

Yep. Do or die year for both of them it appears. Probably appropriate. That might change this offseason, who knows....but as of now, that's what the tea leaves are saying. 

[Guest]

@JimmyinSD said:

@FSUVike said:
My scenario if I was the Owner would be to bring Rick, Mike, Kirk and Dalvin in together and tell them nobody gets extended until next offseason. If they show me a jump in Year 2 of the Kubiak Offense I'm extending all of them. If not, they all walk.

I then ask Kirk and Dalvin to leave the room and tell Rick & Mike to do what it takes to fix the O-Line so I can get a full measure of Kirk's ceiling. And tell them to get some 711 CBs for that Zone Defense. Takes CBs too long to learn the other system and they're out of time.

I need to see Kirk behind the same Line Jimmy G. has. If he wilts against the good Defenses behind a good Line I'm done with him. 

im already there,  but we all have our own tolerance levels.

I wouldn't call it tolerance as much as acceptance that this is the most viable option currently available. 

Minnesota isn't getting Joe B or Tua. Brady would intrigue me as his arm strength is definitely still there vs. the other geezer Free Agent QBs Brees or Rivers, but I highly doubt he's looking to peddle TB12 to the folks in Minneapolis instead of Los Angels. I personally do not think Teddy is as good, let alone a clear upgrade from Kirk. Winston? No thanks.

So where does the clear upgrade come from? In lieu of one why not give the guy you already have the best conditions to optimize success?