I think the Sloter Experiment is coming to a close.....
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't even there is much of a debate if Mannion is the #2 or not. The question is whether they are going to roster 3 QB's and whether that guy is Sloter or Browning. There is a lot more that goes into being a backup QB than what you do on the field and Mannion is better served to be a "backup coach" to Kirk than either of the other two QB's. There is a reason they hand selected someone who has intricate knowledge of the Shanahan/Walsh offense.
Sloter needs to even out his game and avoid the highs & lows that show up both in the games and during practice. His arm and athletic talents are very good, and he's a great guy. But you can't assume his production would hold steady against a stiffer level of competition of a team that'd game planned for him.
I haven't seen anyone assume that he would be blowing away better competition, but what does it hurt to finally pit him against the number twos after the past 2 years that he has shown? He obviously couldn't have played any better against the competition he's seen so far, so why not bump him up a level to see how he does there?
I don't disagree with that. You can get him reps against a higher level of competition. But even if he performs well that doesn't necessarily make him a better mentor in the room for Kirk. What that would do is show that he is worth continued development.
Guru, do you really think a guy like Mannion is going to mentor KC? He's played in 10 games in the past four years with zero TDs and 1 pick. I don't think KC needs to have the vet QB to teach him at this stage of his career, and if he did, that guy certainly isn't on the Vikings roster.
Kirk needs to get better, but I'd think it's the coaches he needs to listen too and bounce ideas off of.
I just hope Mannion and Sloter both have good pre-seasons, and may the best Qb win the #2 spot. If KC stays healthy again this year, the #2 guy really doesn't get noticed during games anyway.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't even there is much of a debate if Mannion is the #2 or not. The question is whether they are going to roster 3 QB's and whether that guy is Sloter or Browning. There is a lot more that goes into being a backup QB than what you do on the field and Mannion is better served to be a "backup coach" to Kirk than either of the other two QB's. There is a reason they hand selected someone who has intricate knowledge of the Shanahan/Walsh offense.
Sloter needs to even out his game and avoid the highs & lows that show up both in the games and during practice. His arm and athletic talents are very good, and he's a great guy. But you can't assume his production would hold steady against a stiffer level of competition of a team that'd game planned for him.
no offense G as I know that you are just relaying the teams positon.... but that is the dumbest fucking thing I think I have ever heard when discussing why to keep one player over another. if KC needs help from somebody we have an unlimited number of coaching positions available, to waste a 53 man spot on a guy that is an inferior player is just fucking maddening to me. If mannion cant out perform Sloter or anybody else for that matter when it counts then they shouldnt be sucking up a roster spot.
I cant believe that the team is unwilling to give a guy that has absolutely dominated the opposing teams 3rd stringers for 2 straight years an opportunity to show case himself against better talent. If I was Sloters agent I would be pissed as hell and be wanting him out as soon as possible if that is the teams position.
I dont care how Mannion has looked in practice, he isnt worried about getting hit in practice and isnt going to get his receivers killed in practice with poor/late throws. He looks average to poor when the bullets are real while Sloter has looked the part and then some in the opportunities he has been given.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ SFVikingFan said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
I don't even there is much of a debate if Mannion is the #2 or not. The question is whether they are going to roster 3 QB's and whether that guy is Sloter or Browning. There is a lot more that goes into being a backup QB than what you do on the field and Mannion is better served to be a "backup coach" to Kirk than either of the other two QB's. There is a reason they hand selected someone who has intricate knowledge of the Shanahan/Walsh offense.
Sloter needs to even out his game and avoid the highs & lows that show up both in the games and during practice. His arm and athletic talents are very good, and he's a great guy. But you can't assume his production would hold steady against a stiffer level of competition of a team that'd game planned for him.
I haven't seen anyone assume that he would be blowing away better competition, but what does it hurt to finally pit him against the number twos after the past 2 years that he has shown? He obviously couldn't have played any better against the competition he's seen so far, so why not bump him up a level to see how he does there?
I don't disagree with that. You can get him reps against a higher level of competition. But even if he performs well that doesn't necessarily make him a better mentor in the room for Kirk. What that would do is show that he is worth continued development.
Kirk is making 28 million per year and is in his 7th year? The Vikings have how many coaches on the offensive side of the ball, and nothing limiting them from adding more. Mannion has very little real experience to share in any offense that the Vikings should be wasting a roster spot on him if there is a better candidate available.
So the 2nd String QB doesn't help review game film of upcoming Defenses? Doesn't help install new wrinkles for next week's opponent?
Many of you act like 'holding the clipboard' is just a euphemism for getting paid to do nothing.
If the backup QB was only there to fill in for injuries then why don't more teams keep young guys with potential over older guys who've proven they aren't long-term Starters? In a League that has never in its history had 32 bona fide Franchise QBs you would think most teams would constantly be on the lookout for the next young kid to develop.
But they don't. Because those young kids don't help the Starting QB do his job. There's a reason the Favre's and Brady's and Ben's of the world don't lift a finger to help young QBs but love having guys like Hoyer around. And that reason is THAT THEY HELP THEM DO THEIR JOBS!
Sloter isn't helping Cousins learn the new scheme, which is hardly just a copy/paste of what he ran in Washington. Mannion is. And that has value. That value, from the outside looking in, appears to be of greater value to the Team than a developing kid who lacks consistency in practice, which is where players earn trust, not lighting up backups in meaningless games.
The other potential angle here is the idea of the 'extra Coach'. How many current QB Coaches, Offensive Coordinators and Head Coaches were backup QBs in the League? I don't know the exact number but it's fairly substantial.
I'm not saying Mannion is anything more than what I've already mentioned, but what if he's also contributing ideas? What if he's another bright mind for Stefanski to mine ala Klint, Gary and Kirk? I'm not saying Sloter isn't but it's far less likely a developmental kid learning his 3rd new scheme is helping rather than needing help in the film room and on the field.
We all want Sloter to be insurance as the potential Franchise QB if Cousins doesn't work out. But that inconsistency in practice is a legit red flag. And Mannion is bringing to the table something of measurable value to helping Kirk hopefully become that Franchise QB.
In a perfect world Sloter's potential outweighs Mannion's contribution with the clipboard. Hopefully by the time the regular season starts. We'll see.
Quote: @FSUVike said:
So the 2nd String QB doesn't help review game film of upcoming Defenses? Doesn't help install new wrinkles for next week's opponent?
Many of you act like 'holding the clipboard' is just a euphemism for getting paid to do nothing.
If the backup QB was only there to fill in for injuries then why don't more teams keep young guys with potential over older guys who've proven they aren't long-term Starters? In a League that has never in its history had 32 bona fide Franchise QBs you would think most teams would constantly be on the lookout for the next young kid to develop.
But they don't. Because those young kids don't help the Starting QB do his job. There's a reason the Favre's and Brady's and Ben's of the world don't lift a finger to help young QBs but love having guys like Hoyer around. And that reason is THAT THEY HELP THEM DO THEIR JOBS!
Sloter isn't helping Cousins learn the new scheme, which is hardly just a copy/paste of what he ran in Washington. Mannion is. And that has value. That value, from the outside looking in, appears to be of greater value to the Team than a developing kid who lacks consistency in practice, which is where players earn trust, not lighting up backups in meaningless games.
The other potential angle here is the idea of the 'extra Coach'. How many current QB Coaches, Offensive Coordinators and Head Coaches were backup QBs in the League? I don't know the exact number but it's fairly substantial.
I'm not saying Mannion is anything more than what I've already mentioned, but what if he's also contributing ideas? What if he's another bright mind for Stefanski to mine ala Klint, Gary and Kirk? I'm not saying Sloter isn't but it's far less likely a developmental kid learning his 3rd new scheme is helping rather than needing help in the film room and on the field.
We all want Sloter to be insurance as the potential Franchise QB if Cousins doesn't work out. But that inconsistency in practice is a legit red flag. And Mannion is bringing to the table something of measurable value to helping Kirk hopefully become that Franchise QB.
In a perfect world Sloter's potential outweighs Mannion's contribution with the clipboard. Hopefully by the time the regular season starts. We'll see.
bring in a retired Kubiak QB to work in the mentor coach capacity and he will be able to not only work with KC, but he can also help Sloter and Browing develop, honestly if the current QB coach cant do that, why is he the QB coach? as precious as roster spots are, its nuts to think that an inferior player is occupying one of those spots simply because they can coach up the starter inspite of not being the best guy to replace him if needed.
we see it every year at all the other positions where a starter is released for a younger version of him that is up and coming despite that veterans ability to still provide a return on and off the field, Greenway, Robison, some are saying it could be Griff this year... if we are keeping shit at QB ( becuase they can coach the positon) and letting quality go at other positions... thats just a losing approach IMO.
If the Vikings decide to go with Mannion over Sloter, there is probably a very good reason for it. But I will say this....the prospect of stumbling onto a free franchise QB the way that the Rams did with Warner and the Pats did with Brady, Cowboys Romo, Houston Moon, etc...is still there with Sloter. I doubt it is with Mannion. So before they kick Sloter to the curb, they better be damn sure he isn't the next Kurt Warner before they do.
And before you say that's a ridiculous comparison, remember Kurt Warner famously didn't show much until he was forced into a game. I have no idea what he looks like in practice, but in preseason games so far Sloter is 78 of 106 for a ridiculous 73% completion percentage, 900 yards, 9 TDs and 0 picks.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
If the Vikings decide to go with Mannion over Sloter, there is probably a very good reason for it. But I will say this....the prospect of stumbling onto a free franchise QB the way that the Rams did with Warner and the Pats did with Brady, Cowboys Romo, Houston Moon, etc...is still there with Sloter. I doubt it is with Mannion. So before they kick Sloter to the curb, they better be damn sure he isn't the next Kurt Warner before they do.
And before you say that's a ridiculous comparison, remember Kurt Warner famously didn't show much until he was forced into a game. I have no idea what he looks like in practice, but in preseason games so far Sloter is 78 of 106 for a ridiculous 73% completion percentage, 900 yards, 9 TDs and 0 picks.
Agreed. Fans love potential and hype. Coaches see far more than we do. But as you say, his stats are ridiculous, so I hope they give him a shot against the 2nd string. Gotta prove that he can do that against NFL talent.
I think Mannion gets the job because of some of the reasons that were stated. He does a lot more than just back up the QB and that is important when you have another offensive mind on that sideline. I don't think Sloter has that in him. He just plays. I like to see Mannion and Browning backing up Kirk
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