Did Holton Hill’s rise change the dynamic of the Vikings’ secondary?

[purplefaithful]

He had projected as high as a fourth-round pick, but dropped out of the draft because of off-field issues. Hill was suspended by the Longhorn program and reportedly failed a drug test at the NFL Combine. The 6-foot-2 cornerback joined the Vikings as an undrafted free agent, unsure if he would win the final cornerback spot on the roster.

Now with 16 games and three starts under his belt Hill has put himself in position for more playing time next year. In 213 coverage snaps, Hill allowed just 16 catches on 31 targets and a 67.0 quarterback rating against. Meanwhile all the 2018 seventh-round picks combined started two games.
His solid debut season puts the Vikings in an interesting spot.
Between proven starters Xavier Rhodes and Trae Waynes alone, the Vikings are set to spend around $22.5 million in cap space in 2019, according to OverTheCap. On the other hand, starting nickel corner Mackensie Alexander, 2018 first-round pick Mike Hughes and Hill only take around $4 million in cap space combined.
When the offseason officially begins, the Vikings are set to have about $11 million in space unaccounted for and Rhodes’ $13.4 million hit is the third biggest on the team, only behind Kirk Cousins and Danielle Hunter.
There are certainly moves the team can make to create space like restructuring the contracts of Everson Griffen and Kyle Rudolph and cutting guard Mike Remmers and safety Andrew Sendejo, but there are also things on the offseason checklist that will be costly, including a new contract for Adam Thielen and filling open spots on the offensive line, at three-technique defensive tackle and potentially linebacker.
Hill’s strong performance could give the Vikings the option to move on from either Rhodes or Waynes and use that cap space to fill bigger needs.
While the success of the ex-Longhorn came in a small sample, he was the fifth highest graded rookie with at least 100 coverage snaps and allowed the third lowest QB rating against.
Among all NFL corners with more than 100 passing snaps, he graded 23rd in coverage, while Waynes was graded 62nd of 131 and Rhodes 111th.
Hill was 11th in rating allowed, while Waynes ended the year 69th and Rhodes 53rd.
Of course, these numbers and grades aren’t apples to apples. Hill’s comes in a much smaller sample size and a major part of Rhodes’ grade comes in the fact he was the 10th most penalized corner in the league last year. Not to mention that both starters battled injuries.
But Mike Zimmer’s defense seems to make corners into kings. After two years of struggling to get on the field, Alexander had a strong finish, ending the year 32rd by PFF. And Hughes showed the potential to make a quick jump when he returns from an ACL injury in his rookie year.
https://www.skornorth.com/vikings-2/2019...secondary/

[Guest]

The Vikings have scouted and drafted exceptionally well the last several seasons, especially on defense. But if they don't USE that as currency to pull up weaker parts of the team then they're missing an opportunity. 

With Hughes looking like a big hit, Alexander proving his worth and Hill looking like a real find, I would be surprised if the Vikings don't find a way to get something for Waynes. I'd feel pretty good with Hughes starting, Hill behind him and Alexander in the nickel. Especially if it meant we got a 2nd rounder or some OL help in return for Waynes. There are a few 2015 1st round offensive linemen in the same boat with Waynes, meaning played pretty well, signed to 5th year options, but not exactly setting the world on fire. Andrus Peat and DJ Humphries come to mind. Brandon Scherff would be pretty awesome, but he would take more than just Waynes. 

[Guest]

@"MaroonBells" said:
The Vikings have scouted and drafted exceptionally well the last several seasons, especially on defense. But if they don't USE that as currency to pull up weaker parts of the team then they're missing an opportunity. 

With Hughes looking like a big hit, Alexander proving his worth and Hill looking like a real find, I would be surprised if the Vikings don't find a way to get something for Waynes. I'd feel pretty good with Hughes starting, Hill behind him and Alexander in the nickel. Especially if it meant we got a 2nd rounder or some OL help in return for Waynes. There are a few 2015 1st round offensive linemen in the same boat with Waynes, meaning played pretty well, signed to 5th year options, but not exactly setting the world on fire. Andrus Peat and DJ Humphries come to mind. Brandon Scherff would be pretty awesome, but he would take more than just Waynes. 

I agree 100% that is an opportunity they should be able to take advantage of. But I don't think the trade value of Rhodes/Waynes is as good as many are thinking. The lack of term on Trae's deal will severely decrease his value. 

[Guest]

@"Geoff Nichols" said:

@"MaroonBells" said:
The Vikings have scouted and drafted exceptionally well the last several seasons, especially on defense. But if they don't USE that as currency to pull up weaker parts of the team then they're missing an opportunity. 

With Hughes looking like a big hit, Alexander proving his worth and Hill looking like a real find, I would be surprised if the Vikings don't find a way to get something for Waynes. I'd feel pretty good with Hughes starting, Hill behind him and Alexander in the nickel. Especially if it meant we got a 2nd rounder or some OL help in return for Waynes. There are a few 2015 1st round offensive linemen in the same boat with Waynes, meaning played pretty well, signed to 5th year options, but not exactly setting the world on fire. Andrus Peat and DJ Humphries come to mind. Brandon Scherff would be pretty awesome, but he would take more than just Waynes. 

I agree 100% that is an opportunity they should be able to take advantage of. But I don't think the trade value of Rhodes/Waynes is as good as many are thinking. The lack of term on Trae's deal will severely decrease his value. 

Yep, the fact that you're only going to get one year from him before you have to pay him will keep his value down. That's why I was hoping to match him up with an OL in the same boat. I don't know that I've ever seen that happen though. 

[Guest]

It was great to see Hill develop. But we need to remember there was a reason he was a UDFA. If he failed his drug test at the combine, he's already in the NFL's drug program and one failure away from a 4-game suspension. Other guys have had one "clean" season only to relapse. I'm cheering for him, but not assume he's a definite steal.
As for trading Rhodes or Waynes, I think their actual trade value would anger fans. One might be declining, the other is on the last (most expensive) year of his contract. Those are the reasons Vikings might want to trade him - but every other team knows the same.
Want a trade option which could actually bring some significant value - but likely incense some? Trade Mike Hughes.

1. He'll bring the most value (if he passes a physical), because he showed well in his brief rookie playing, and a team can have him for 3 inexpensive years and a 5th-year option.
2. We drafted Hughes because we feared Mac Alexander wasn't developing and we needed CB depth. Well, Mac turned the corner, and Hill gives us comfortable depth.
3. Over and over, we hear how players need a year (or two) playing in Zimmer's defense to understand their role. But Hughes only had 4 games, so he'll probably struggle. Our window is now.
4. IMO Rhodes is part of the core defensive players on this team - send him away and players may feel a rebuild has begun. Maybe not with Waynes.

[Guest]

@"Jor-El" said:
It was great to see Hill develop. But we need to remember there was a reason he was a UDFA. If he failed his drug test at the combine, he's already in the NFL's drug program and one failure away from a 4-game suspension. Other guys have had one "clean" season only to relapse. I'm cheering for him, but not assume he's a definite steal.
As for trading Rhodes or Waynes, I think their actual trade value would anger fans. One might be declining, the other is on the last (most expensive) year of his contract. Those are the reasons Vikings might want to trade him - but every other team knows the same.
Want a trade option which could actually bring some significant value - but likely incense some? Trade Mike Hughes.

1. He'll bring the most value (if he passes a physical), because he showed well in his brief rookie playing, and a team can have him for 3 inexpensive years and a 5th-year option.
2. We drafted Hughes because we feared Mac Alexander wasn't developing and we needed CB depth. Well, Mac turned the corner, and Hill gives us comfortable depth.
3. Over and over, we hear how players need a year (or two) playing in Zimmer's defense to understand their role. But Hughes only had 4 games, so he'll probably struggle. Our window is now.
4. IMO Rhodes is part of the core defensive players on this team - send him away and players may feel a rebuild has begun. Maybe not with Waynes.

All good takes, but I think trading Hughes now could be selling low given the injury...I also have this gut feeling his ceiling is the highest of all those little DB gems too. 

[Guest]

You wouldnt get a first for any of Waynes, Rhoades or Hughes now days. Maybe a second?  Hughes has the best value but Id keep him at this point.