Quote: @greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
Those are excuses. Game is a full 60 minutes and we rarely play a full 60 minutes. The line sucks because Spielman has ignored it for years so when injuries do happen, we don't have quality depth to step in. Like I said, I don't put this on Cousins. Spielman spent the money on a Ferrari without having a garage to protect it. As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
Those are excuses. Game is a full 60 minutes and we rarely play a full 60 minutes. The line sucks because Spielman has ignored it for years so when injuries do happen, we don't have quality depth to step in. Like I said, I don't put this on Cousins. Spielman spent the money on a Ferrari without having a garage to protect it. As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy. 2 years ago, no we didn't have depth. Now we do and they are playing pretty damn well. 2nd round rookie stepping in and starting against Cam Jordan. Hill sliding to LT and playing fairly decent. Isadora was about 4th on the depth chart at LG. So yes, they are excuses. But legit excuses.
Quote: @greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
Those are excuses. Game is a full 60 minutes and we rarely play a full 60 minutes. The line sucks because Spielman has ignored it for years so when injuries do happen, we don't have quality depth to step in. Like I said, I don't put this on Cousins. Spielman spent the money on a Ferrari without having a garage to protect it. As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy. 2 years ago, no we didn't have depth. Now we do and they are playing pretty damn well. 2nd round rookie stepping in and starting against Cam Jordan. Hill sliding to LT and playing fairly decent. Isadora was about 4th on the depth chart at LG. So yes, they are excuses. But legit excuses.
We are running the ball better so I will give you that minor improvement from the beginning of the year due to a healthier Elf and O'Neill having an impact, but our pass protection sucks and the stats don't lie. I heard today that we are bottom 10 in the league for pass pro. Cousins being pressured on 49% of his throws last night was not an anomaly against a good team. It's what we have seen all year so even when we had the majority of our starters healthy,(Reiff, Compton, Jones, Remmers, Hill) this line has been well below average. It's actually gotten better once O'Neill replaced Hill and Elf replaced Jones but I fail to see much upside for the remainder of the year even when Reiff comes back. This is not a line you can go deep into the playoffs with let alone win a championship IMO. I think you and I are saying the same thing with a different explanation. You are blaming injuries, and I'm blaming our GM's lack of investment into the OLine. Like POPS said, Spielman thinks he is smarter than everyone in the room and it's about time he gets some heat for the position we find ourselves in. Our OLine has been our biggest weakness for years and that's on RS.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
“...As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy. “
Hate saying it ? I think you couldnt wait to say it as it helps perpetuate your agenda
Can we just sticky on top that you want Wittle Wicky ( more condescending ) fired mid season
Quote: @Maple Surple said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
“...As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy. “
Hate saying it ? I think you couldnt wait to say it as it helps perpetuate your agenda
Can we just sticky on top that you want Wittle Wicky ( more condescending ) fired mid season
Whoa Maple Surple!!! I think you are confusing me with njvike. Spielman has done some great things since his time here. Landing Cousins was definitely one of them which I was defending from the Freeman article I posted to start the thread. I don't like how he has handled the talent on the OLine and that is a legitimate criticism. We are in our Super Bowl window now which will be hard to achieve with this OLine.
I didn't realize that criticism automatically labels you as having an "Agenda" on this site.
Quote: @TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
@ TBro said:
@ greediron said:
I lost it when cousins threw the pick 6. First blush was how in the hell did he throw it right to the defender. Until I saw the replay and Diggs stopped.
Cousins made some dumb decisions, like not getting rid of it on a 3 step drop. But he also had us in the lead and looking for a commanding lead at halftime. So, I am glad we have a QB that can put up points, make throws and guide this offense. I think our O-Line did pretty well too. We took some deep shots. Once they had a 2 score lead and we were in pass only mode, but that isn't fair to judge an o-line when the pass rushers can pin their ears back.
Like you said, Cousins has his issues, but I don't view him as a problem. If anything, he has been a solution to keep us in games with the other high powered elite offensive teams in this league. Defense has been playing well the past couple of weeks despite the injuries. You can't turn the ball over and expect to beat good teams. I will disagree with you a little on the OLine. I think they did well in the first half when we had the momentum, but they continued to deteriorate as the game went on. Cousins was pressured in 49% of his throws including the pick six where Diggs stopped running his route. The Saints made a nice adjustment to play aggressive man to man coverage on Thielen and Diggs with Safety help over the top which allowed their pass rush to ramp up the pressure in the second half.
Backups at 3 positions and they held their own in the first half. Even running the ball effectively against a stout run D. Yes it deteriorated, but that is what playing with a lead will do for the defense.
Those are excuses. Game is a full 60 minutes and we rarely play a full 60 minutes. The line sucks because Spielman has ignored it for years so when injuries do happen, we don't have quality depth to step in. Like I said, I don't put this on Cousins. Spielman spent the money on a Ferrari without having a garage to protect it. As much as I hate to say it, the Saints are just a better team than the Vikings even when we are healthy. 2 years ago, no we didn't have depth. Now we do and they are playing pretty damn well. 2nd round rookie stepping in and starting against Cam Jordan. Hill sliding to LT and playing fairly decent. Isadora was about 4th on the depth chart at LG. So yes, they are excuses. But legit excuses.
We are running the ball better so I will give you that minor improvement from the beginning of the year due to a healthier Elf and O'Neill having an impact, but our pass protection sucks and the stats don't lie. I heard today that we are bottom 10 in the league for pass pro. Cousins being pressured on 49% of his throws last night was not an anomaly against a good team. It's what we have seen all year so even when we had the majority of our starters healthy,(Reiff, Compton, Jones, Remmers, Hill) this line has been well below average. It's actually gotten better once O'Neill replaced Hill and Elf replaced Jones but I fail to see much upside for the remainder of the year even when Reiff comes back. This is not a line you can go deep into the playoffs with let alone win a championship IMO. I think you and I are saying the same thing with a different explanation. You are blaming injuries, and I'm blaming our GM's lack of investment into the OLine. Like POPS said, Spielman thinks he is smarter than everyone in the room and it's about time he gets some heat for the position we find ourselves in. Our OLine has been our biggest weakness for years and that's on RS.
Technically all offseason we were expecting the starting OL to be.
Reiff. Easton . Elflein. Remmers. Hill
And the reserves
Collins, Compton Edison Jones O'Neill Isidora
They might still have made improvements but with Elf, Easton, and Collins out early it made it tough, they also seemed to like that OT Lang that we lost in preseason as well so that basically 4 out of 10 potentially that we counted on to help that didn't leave camp.
TBRO you are right that Rick ignored the Line. Until he signed Reiff and Remmers and spent a 3rd and a 2nd in consecutive Drafts.
I think it's important to distinguish between ignoring the Line for years vs. still ignoring the Line, which he quite clearly is not doing.
I'm about learning from mistakes. Spielman ignored the Line too long by counting on injured and under performing guys (Kalil, Loadie, Fusco, Sully).
Signing a former 1st Rounder, signing a RT that was recently in a Super Bowl, spending a 2nd and a 3rd. It hasn't been enough because you simply can't fix something you ignored for so long in two offseasons.
Progress has been made. The real question is whether he and Mike continue to look to improve it again next offseason.
If the roll with Reiff, Easton, Elf, Remmers/Isidora, O'Neil I will be up front and vocal about it. That is League Average Guard play at best. The depth gets a little better with Collins back but I'm thinking a 1st or 2nd Round pick on a Guard or maybe a kid who is playing Tackle now but projects more at Guard that could be in play if O'Neil moves to LT down the road.
Or a FA signing. Not a blockbuster, but a smart move like the Eagles made with Brandon Brooks.
If they go LB, DE, CB, OG in the Draft and sign nobody I will tear after Rick with a vengeance for not learning his lesson.
First and foremost I don't think Cousins is a flop. I want to get some facts out there that suggest there are places where he could improve.
1. He needs to take better care of the ball.
2. He needs to have touchdown drives instead of FGs when the D gives him the ball in enemy territory. 5 times in the Jets game the O started in plus territory(once on their 9 yard line) and we scored 3 FG's and Zero TDs. I said it then,we were lucky the Jets are not that good and FGs or zero points will not be acceptable vs better teams. This year in the NFL Offenses are scoring, a lot. Ours is not. People like to point to stats and gush... I like points and wins.
For all the massive improvements in the passing game this year... The Vikings score 24.6 points per game in 2018. In 2017 they scored 23.9
points per game. That's a very small point per game increase. Meanwhile teams
with "franchise" QBs are putting up these numbers. Brees = 33.4ppg
Brady = 29.9ppg Rapelestburger = 29.1ppg Rivers = 27.9ppg. And
rookies are playing well too. KC's rookie has his team at 36.2 ppg. The
Ram's guy is putting up 33ppg and the kid in Chicago is putting up
27.7ppg. The Vikings improved their QB situation and have been rewarded with a
0.7 point per game increase. That has to go up for me to see any
benefits, I believe it will as Cousins settles in and gets used to his teammates.
And.... just for fun....
The 2017 Denver team scored 18.1 ppg and
this year they are at 23.5, after going out and "improving" their QB
situation, a 5.4 point per game increase, but at the same time they also have a losing
record. But at least they are scoring almost a touchdown more per game,
which is the offense's job. If the Vikings had similar points per game results with their QB upgrade, their ppg average would be 30 and I'd be extremely happy.
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