Maybe it’s not him. Maybe it’s you.

[Guest]

Case does have heart...but seems to run out of tangibles against better defenses.  He looked haunted against Carolina, he looked clueless most of Sunday and most of the second half against the Saints.  His great pass to Diggs (and it was great) was partially made great by Diggs, and partially made possible by the poor defensive play.

I don't pretend to have the solution.  Case has shown signs of his limitations, Teddy has never proven to have a consistent long pass game, and Sam's knees seem to be on their own team.  IF Case keeps growing, he'll be amazing.  IF Teddy can back up his leadership with passing prowess, he'll be amazing.  IF Sam's knees are truly fixed, he's the best pure passer of the bunch.

IF, IF, IF.

[Guest]

@pumpf said:

@Poiple said:

@pumpf said:
Tebow had guts and fire, too.  But he couldn't throw a spiral.  I love Case as a human being.  I'm not old enough to have loved Joe Kapp... but he was a helluva guy, too.  But he wasn't the kind of QB that was going to win games for you.  He just wouldn't lose them.  Having heart is great; but being able to make all the throws- and having the skill to do it- is pretty important too.

In Hawaii they say “The proof is in the bread pudding”. They really like their bread pudding.

Your argument would be good except he just led the Vikes to a 14-4 season.  Its not like he was 7-9.  So Im not sure what to so with this.

Did he really "lead" them... or was he part of a "team" that was successful together?  I'd say that our defense had alot to do with our 14-4 record.  Case- this year- was more than a "game-manager"... but not by much (imo).  

It seems easy for some to ignore the direct evidence in order to support their opinion, especially when the opionion is based on something other than the truth.
Labeling Case as a “Game Manager” is a not very subtle way of ignoring all he did throughout the season to get the Vikings into the playoffs.  By all statistics and measurements his play was directly responsible for wins.
Every team needs great play from the lineman and also from the skill positions.  People seem ready to give credit to O lne for blocking when they win but want to blame the quarterback when the O line plays like crap.  They ignore the Line injuries and shuffling and point at the QB to “I was right.  Case isnt a good Qb.”

It is interesting to see.

[Guest]

@Poiple said:

@pumpf said:

@Poiple said:

@pumpf said:
Tebow had guts and fire, too.  But he couldn't throw a spiral.  I love Case as a human being.  I'm not old enough to have loved Joe Kapp... but he was a helluva guy, too.  But he wasn't the kind of QB that was going to win games for you.  He just wouldn't lose them.  Having heart is great; but being able to make all the throws- and having the skill to do it- is pretty important too.

In Hawaii they say “The proof is in the bread pudding”. They really like their bread pudding.

Your argument would be good except he just led the Vikes to a 14-4 season.  Its not like he was 7-9.  So Im not sure what to so with this.

Did he really "lead" them... or was he part of a "team" that was successful together?  I'd say that our defense had alot to do with our 14-4 record.  Case- this year- was more than a "game-manager"... but not by much (imo).  

It seems easy for some to ignore the direct evidence in order to support their opinion, especially when the opionion is based on something other than the truth.
Labeling Case as a “Game Manager” is a not very subtle way of ignoring all he did throughout the season to get the Vikings into the playoffs.  By all statistics and measurements his play was directly responsible for wins.
Every team needs great play from the lineman and also from the skill positions.  People seem ready to give credit to O lne for blocking when they win but want to blame the quarterback when the O line plays like crap.  They ignore the Line injuries and shuffling and point at the QB to “I was right.  Case isnt a good Qb.”

It is interesting to see.

Case IS a good QB.  He's just not a great one.  There were alot of factors that went into our team's success this year; and Case's play was one of them.  And there were alot of factors that went into our epic fail in the NFCC game... and Case's play is one of them.  Others may- or may not- be painting people's opinions with a broad brush (like usual: "criticism of a player = he sucks"... "praise of a player = he's the GOAT"); but I'm not interested in debating what other people meant with their comments.  I can't read their minds.  I can only tell you what I meant.  And I've said it.  Case is a good QB; probably one of (if not the) best back-up QBs anywhere.  And he could certainly start for a number of teams.  But if we're looking to win a SB, I think we will need to look elsewhere.  I don't think we have the kind of team that is SO talented that it can just plug in a "good" QB and win it all.  We need a QB who can win games for us- not just "not lose" them.  I don't see Case as that guy.  Doesn't mean I don't love the guy and wish him well.  Nor does it mean that I think he "sucks".  He's good.  Just not good enough.  

When someone asked about why anyone would want Kirk Cousins over Case, I took it upon myself to look up the stats.  And, besides learning that Cousins had more TDs and yards... I also found that Case was 18th in passing yards per game.  Considering that we didn't have a super running game, that seems kind of low (for a "great" QB).  Case may have been 6th or 7th in QB rating (which sounds really good) but Alex Smith was #1.  And despite what some folks might think, most do not consider him a "great" QB.  So maybe that's not the best way to measure a QB, either. For me, it's the eye test.  It's what I see.  You may see things differently- and that's OK.  This is a place to offer opinions- and mine is that Case was a good QB for us this year and did some great things.  But I don't think he can takes us any further than he did.  By the way, the loss in the NFCC game is more on the defense than on him, lest you think that I'm "blaming" him for us losing that game.  He could've played better, certainly.  But I'm not sure there are many QBs that could've overcome the mess that the Defense left in the middle of the field.

[Guest]

Cook would have broken many runs that McKinnon and Murray (especially Murray) had for much bigger gains and to the house. Murray has the instincts, but no burst or shiftiness....he's too tall and upright. McKinnon is talented, but has the instincts of a potted plant at RB: I've seen him run directly INTO tackles/defenders.

Dalvin Cook is going to be a difference maker in 2018.