Quote: @"A1Janitor" said:
@"mblack" said:
What I find really crazy is... Trump was touted as the one to go against the deep state or the establishment. When people point out Trumps mistakes, his fans say "The Clintons/Obama or Dems did the same" and Trump is not the first one.
Question: Is Trump really fighting the establishment as we were told or he is just trying to take care of himself and friends (like we were told others did). Non of the Trump supporters have come out to say "Yes Trump screwed up here". All we see from them are examples of how others may have done the same thing or something similar in the past. How about his promise to change the status quo for the better?
If you understood that this is all a fucking hoax - you wouldn’t ask this shit.
Yes, he is fighting the establishment. He didn’t work with Russia to influence 2016 - Hillary worked with the Ukrainians to do that. I am not saying Hillary did so leave Trump alone. i am saying Hillary did and the deep state created a hoax to make it look like Trump did.
Trump didn’t make money off Ukraine or Russia. Biden (and others like Kerry and Romney) did.
Trump didn’t illegally use a server to hide communications from FOIA. Hillary did. And she tried to pretend Powell was similar because he used a private email account. The difference of course is she deleted 30k emails after a subpoena.
This is all fake. The impeachment bullshit started BEFORE he took office.
I was not talking about Impeachment or Russia. I am sorry if I was not clear. Just in general. Here are some examples...- Trump was asked to pay 2M for his fraudulent Foundation (Trump supporters say Clinton Foundation is equally bad)
- Trump blamed for separating kids at boarder and not keeping track (They said Obama started it)
- Trump blamed for escalating deaths in Syria (by abruptly pulling US troops).. you guessed it, they blame Obama for leaving the troops there.
There are more but those are just off my head.
Oh about the Impeachment... Hilary did not have the call that started this.. Trump did. The whistleblower did not make stuff up. Trump also pretty much confirmed all there is in the report and his cronies also accepted that. You can argue that people may be against him but you cant argue that he did not make the demands because he and his aides have stated that.
Quote: @"mblack" said:
What I find really crazy is... Trump was touted as the one to go against the deep state or the establishment. When people point out Trumps mistakes, his fans say "The Clintons/Obama or Dems did the same" and Trump is not the first one.
Question: Is Trump really fighting the establishment as we were told or he is just trying to take care of himself and friends (you know, the allegations they made against everyone before Trump)? Non of the Trump supporters have come out to say "Yes Trump screwed up here". All we see from them are examples of how others may have done the same thing or something similar in the past. How about his promise to change the status quo for the better?
I'm pretty sure that I have said that (about his abandoning of the Kurds)... and I said that he should pay back whatever he owes in this thread. Does my voice not count? Or was it not strong enough to qualify? I think there are alot of people that disagree with various things that Trump has done. But because we aren't calling for him to be impeached and/or executed... it's never enough. And that's probably why Clinton / Obama comes up so often: because liberals never said a word when those guys did similar things (or worse). So, why should Trump be "punished", when previous presidents haven't been?
As long as you guys are willing to be consistent with your applications of the law and its punishments, I'm right there with you. If Trump ever rapes a woman, I'd want him jailed for it. If Trump tries to circumnavigate an uncooperative Congress by simply making laws with the stroke of his pen, I'll be against it. I everyone held to the same standard. But until both sides agree to do it (attacking "the other guy" while protecting their own), there's no point. If Democrats want Republicans to demand better of their candidates, how about if the Democrats start by demanding better of their own? They could set a great example for everyone to follow (and they almost did with the Al Franken debacle). Unfortunately, it was just a one-time thing.
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"mblack" said:
What I find really crazy is... Trump was touted as the one to go against the deep state or the establishment. When people point out Trumps mistakes, his fans say "The Clintons/Obama or Dems did the same" and Trump is not the first one.
Question: Is Trump really fighting the establishment as we were told or he is just trying to take care of himself and friends (you know, the allegations they made against everyone before Trump)? Non of the Trump supporters have come out to say "Yes Trump screwed up here". All we see from them are examples of how others may have done the same thing or something similar in the past. How about his promise to change the status quo for the better?
I'm pretty sure that I have said that (about his abandoning of the Kurds)... and I said that he should pay back whatever he owes in this thread. Does my voice not count? Or was it not strong enough to qualify? I think there are alot of people that disagree with various things that Trump has done. But because we aren't calling for him to be impeached and/or executed... it's never enough. And that's probably why Clinton / Obama comes up so often: because liberals never said a word when those guys did similar things (or worse). So, why should Trump be "punished", when previous presidents haven't been?
As long as you guys are willing to be consistent with your applications of the law and its punishments, I'm right there with you. If Trump ever rapes a woman, I'd want him jailed for it. If Trump tries to circumnavigate an uncooperative Congress by simply making laws with the stroke of his pen, I'll be against it. I everyone held to the same standard. But until both sides agree to do it (attacking "the other guy" while protecting their own), there's no point. If Democrats want Republicans to demand better of their candidates, how about if the Democrats start by demanding better of their own? They could set a great example for everyone to follow (and they almost did with the Al Franken debacle). Unfortunately, it was just a one-time thing.
At the bold...Your voice does count  . I am sorry for the blanket statement.
Trump foundation - this is a joke. Tell me what he did wrong (which happened before he was president) and compare the hundreds of millions the CF got for pay to play scams. Shouldn’t we wait for the Huber investigation to see the truth about the CF before we compare them?
The kids at the border is horseshit. The MSM and dems pointed to children separated in cages - and used pictures when Obama was president. The issue is bad guys use kids that are not theres - as a pass to get in. Build the wall so we don’t need to have this issue.
Deaths in Syria - Trump ran on promises to end needless wars. So how many deaths occurred by him withdrawing? We don’t belong in Syria. We also don’t need ABC using Kentucky videos to pretend Syrian deaths are Trump’s fault.
End the fucking wars. Since when did the left become the hawks and the right doves?!?
We can disagree with policies of Trump - but those disagreements don’t allow is to remove him when he has the right to set policy. He alone. Not the deep state that profits off war.
Quote: @"A1Janitor" said:
Trump foundation - this is a joke. Tell me what he did wrong (which happened before he was president) and compare the hundreds of millions the CF got for pay to play scams. Shouldn’t we wait for the Huber investigation to see the truth about the CF before we compare them?
Like I said... deflection. If he did not do any wrong why did he settle? Especially when he had tweeted in caps that he was not going to settle. Also, why was the foundation dissolved.?
The kids at the border is horseshit. The MSM and dems pointed to children separated in cages - and used pictures when Obama was president. The issue is bad guys use kids that are not theres - as a pass to get in. Build the wall so we don’t need to have this issue.
Again deflection. What does the wall have to do with this? his regime separated kids and had no idea where they were. can we just address that? There were plenty of stories of parents missing kids. For every bad guy that "used" a kid to get in there were plenty of kids that were displaced from their parents.
Deaths in Syria - Trump ran on promises to end needless wars. So how many deaths occurred by him withdrawing? We don’t belong in Syria. We also don’t need ABC using Kentucky videos to pretend Syrian deaths are Trump’s fault.
So we don't care about the killings that happened in Syria because he abruptly pulled the troops. Are you going to say no people were killed? or the only lives that matter to you are Americans? No one said the troops should be there permanently. The way he did it was wrong. Can we agree on that.
Also this notion that "he ran on X" so it must be done is just laughable. he also said Mexico would pay for the wall. What happened to that? Let me guess... we took him out of context
End the fucking wars. Since when did the left become the hawks and the right doves?!?
We can disagree with policies of Trump - but those disagreements don’t allow is to remove him when he has the right to set policy. He alone. Not the deep state that profits off war.
He can be removed when his policies/practices are against the constitution (I am not saying they are... that is what the impeachment hearings are for)
Quote: @"mblack" said:
@"pumpf" said:
@"mblack" said:
What I find really crazy is... Trump was touted as the one to go against the deep state or the establishment. When people point out Trumps mistakes, his fans say "The Clintons/Obama or Dems did the same" and Trump is not the first one.
Question: Is Trump really fighting the establishment as we were told or he is just trying to take care of himself and friends (you know, the allegations they made against everyone before Trump)? Non of the Trump supporters have come out to say "Yes Trump screwed up here". All we see from them are examples of how others may have done the same thing or something similar in the past. How about his promise to change the status quo for the better?
I'm pretty sure that I have said that (about his abandoning of the Kurds)... and I said that he should pay back whatever he owes in this thread. Does my voice not count? Or was it not strong enough to qualify? I think there are alot of people that disagree with various things that Trump has done. But because we aren't calling for him to be impeached and/or executed... it's never enough. And that's probably why Clinton / Obama comes up so often: because liberals never said a word when those guys did similar things (or worse). So, why should Trump be "punished", when previous presidents haven't been?
As long as you guys are willing to be consistent with your applications of the law and its punishments, I'm right there with you. If Trump ever rapes a woman, I'd want him jailed for it. If Trump tries to circumnavigate an uncooperative Congress by simply making laws with the stroke of his pen, I'll be against it. I everyone held to the same standard. But until both sides agree to do it (attacking "the other guy" while protecting their own), there's no point. If Democrats want Republicans to demand better of their candidates, how about if the Democrats start by demanding better of their own? They could set a great example for everyone to follow (and they almost did with the Al Franken debacle). Unfortunately, it was just a one-time thing.
At the bold...Your voice does count . I am sorry for the blanket statement.
I forgive you. But, rest assured... I'm not alone. I think that there are alot of conservatives who aren't crazy about some of the things that Trump has done- or how he has gone about doing it. But given our current set of choices, I'm not sure what "choice" conservatives have. The never-Trumpers have threatened to vote for Democrats, to send some kind of message. But if they really are worried about conservative issues, that seems dumb. Seems more like a repudiation of Trump than an actual move toward liberal policies. The down-side, of course, is that a Democrat could do the same kind of damage (from a conservative point of view) to the country as Trump is doing (from a liberal point of view) right now. So... as a conservative, I'm certainly not going to vote for Democrat- just to make a point.
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
I forgive you. But, rest assured... I'm not alone. I think that there are alot of conservatives who aren't crazy about some of the things that Trump has done- or how he has gone about doing it. But given our current set of choices, I'm not sure what "choice" conservatives have. The never-Trumpers have threatened to vote for Democrats, to send some kind of message. But if they really are worried about conservative issues, that seems dumb. Seems more like a repudiation of Trump than an actual move toward liberal policies. The down-side, of course, is that a Democrat could do the same kind of damage (from a conservative point of view) to the country as Trump is doing (from a liberal point of view) right now. So... as a conservative, I'm certainly not going to vote for Democrat- just to make a point.
Hi Pumpf: Please don't take this as an attack because it is not meant to be but can you list what you view as core conservative issues? Thanks
Quote: @"VikingOracle" said:
@"pumpf" said:
I forgive you. But, rest assured... I'm not alone. I think that there are alot of conservatives who aren't crazy about some of the things that Trump has done- or how he has gone about doing it. But given our current set of choices, I'm not sure what "choice" conservatives have. The never-Trumpers have threatened to vote for Democrats, to send some kind of message. But if they really are worried about conservative issues, that seems dumb. Seems more like a repudiation of Trump than an actual move toward liberal policies. The down-side, of course, is that a Democrat could do the same kind of damage (from a conservative point of view) to the country as Trump is doing (from a liberal point of view) right now. So... as a conservative, I'm certainly not going to vote for Democrat- just to make a point.
Hi Pumpf: Please don't take this as an attack because it is not meant to be but can you list what you view as core conservative issues? Thanks
Why would that be an attack? I'm happy to discuss this with you. In my opinion, conservative issues are: smaller gov't... lower taxes... being pro-life and pro-family (vs. gay marriage and now transgender "stuff")... the 2nd Amendment (although not a high priority for me, other than me opposing all forms of gov't over-reach)... and, more recently, the 1st Amendment (conservatives have always been seen as more "Christian", and therefore, more in favor of religious freedoms... but now we have become the party of free speech, in opposition to "hate speech" laws).
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"VikingOracle" said:
@"pumpf" said:
I forgive you. But, rest assured... I'm not alone. I think that there are alot of conservatives who aren't crazy about some of the things that Trump has done- or how he has gone about doing it. But given our current set of choices, I'm not sure what "choice" conservatives have. The never-Trumpers have threatened to vote for Democrats, to send some kind of message. But if they really are worried about conservative issues, that seems dumb. Seems more like a repudiation of Trump than an actual move toward liberal policies. The down-side, of course, is that a Democrat could do the same kind of damage (from a conservative point of view) to the country as Trump is doing (from a liberal point of view) right now. So... as a conservative, I'm certainly not going to vote for Democrat- just to make a point.
Hi Pumpf: Please don't take this as an attack because it is not meant to be but can you list what you view as core conservative issues? Thanks
Why would that be an attack? I'm happy to discuss this with you. In my opinion, conservative issues are: smaller gov't... lower taxes... being pro-life and pro-family (vs. gay marriage and now transgender "stuff")... the 2nd Amendment (although not a high priority for me, other than me opposing all forms of gov't over-reach)... and, more recently, the 1st Amendment (conservatives have always been seen as more "Christian", and therefore, more in favor of religious freedoms... but now we have become the party of free speech, in opposition to "hate speech" laws).
I distinguish fiscally conservative vs. socially conservative.
I am fiscally conservative - lower taxes, lower regulations, government get the hell out.
I am pro-constitution.
But I am socially moderate. I am not pro- family as you would label yourself ... on some issues I am staunchly conservative - I am absolutely pro life (against both abortion and the death penalty). But my reading of the constitution allows gay marriage, equal inheritance laws, etc. The government must make laws that are equal for all.
I am pro-police, but against the ones who mistreat others.
Second amendment - I would absolutely never own a gun. But I would fight like hell of the government takes them away. People aren’t given the right to a gun by the second amendment. The second amendment acknowledges that everyone had the right before the constitution was written.
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