Quote: @dadevike said:
I wanted Hamilton in that draft and was delighted when he "fell" to us and flabbergasted when we traded out of that spot. That said, I thought Cine was a very good second safety with a lot of physical talent. You may be disappointed that he was drafted, assuming he is too dumb to learn his role in the defense. I am also disappointed that our coaches have not been able to make it work. I refuse to believe he is a lost cause and should be cut. If you have ever coached sports you know that some kids are harder to reach than others. They learn differently and you need to be creative and persistent to find a way to communicate and help them understand. In short, I see this also as a coaching failure.
Zimmer hated Kearse and felt he was too dumb to learn the defense. Z could never figure out how to use him-except one game vs. Denver when Kearse was critical in the win. Kearse was never as talented as Cine. But he did OK in Dallas after he left the Vikings. (Coincidentally, Zimmer is now the OC in Dallas so I assume Kearse has played his last game as a Cowboy.)
You can be critical of the player. You can be critical of the GM for taking that player. That is valid. But unless the player is refusing to make an effort-and I do not believe that to be the case-reserve some criticism for the coaches who are unable to teach the player. We all love Flores but this should also count as a coaching failure. Nobody is off the hook on this one.
We all have our favorite players. But not all of us wet our pants and throw our toys when the team takes someone else. I was OK with the Cine pick.
If Cine's biggest problem really is mental aptitude, I suspect learning two defenses in two years while spending one rehabbing a serious injury may have put him at a big disadvantage. But I think it's more than that. He struggled with tackling in the preseason too. Good speed, terrific in pursuit, just failed to make the tackle. This happened more than once.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ dadevike said:
I wanted Hamilton in that draft and was delighted when he "fell" to us and flabbergasted when we traded out of that spot. That said, I thought Cine was a very good second safety with a lot of physical talent. You may be disappointed that he was drafted, assuming he is too dumb to learn his role in the defense. I am also disappointed that our coaches have not been able to make it work. I refuse to believe he is a lost cause and should be cut. If you have ever coached sports you know that some kids are harder to reach than others. They learn differently and you need to be creative and persistent to find a way to communicate and help them understand. In short, I see this also as a coaching failure.
Zimmer hated Kearse and felt he was too dumb to learn the defense. Z could never figure out how to use him-except one game vs. Denver when Kearse was critical in the win. Kearse was never as talented as Cine. But he did OK in Dallas after he left the Vikings. (Coincidentally, Zimmer is now the OC in Dallas so I assume Kearse has played his last game as a Cowboy.)
You can be critical of the player. You can be critical of the GM for taking that player. That is valid. But unless the player is refusing to make an effort-and I do not believe that to be the case-reserve some criticism for the coaches who are unable to teach the player. We all love Flores but this should also count as a coaching failure. Nobody is off the hook on this one.
We all have our favorite players. But not all of us wet our pants and throw our toys when the team takes someone else. I was OK with the Cine pick.
If Cine's biggest problem really is mental aptitude, I suspect learning two defenses in two years while spending one rehabbing a serious injury may have put him at a big disadvantage. But I think it's more than that. He struggled with tackling in the preseason too. Good speed, terrific in pursuit, just failed to make the tackle. This happened more than once.
Yeah, Cine wasn't good enough to see the field with Donatell's defense either, so I don't think it's a Flores "dog house" issue. I find it really strange that Cine doesn't even see the field much on STs. You'd think with his speed he'd excel as a special teamer. As it sits now, he's right up there as one of the worst 1st round picks the Vikes have wasted.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
You're right that it's still too early for a verdict. You're also right that Jordan Davis is no star. He's actually been kind of a mild bust. But I resent the statement that nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie.
T-Mac was my dude. You don't remember the Great Short Arms Debate of 2023?
No but I remember 2014 when some of the loudest experts on here started first ballot Hall of Famer Aaron Donald as a 4th rounder and finished as a 2nd rd grade on him for his TRex arms.
“But , But, Kwesi is an idiot”. SMH
Quote: @Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
Plenty of people were screaming for Hamilton. He was the most popular choice I remember people wanting. I wanted Davis because we had a desperate need. McDuffie being my second choice. I remember maybe 1 or 2 wanting Jameson. Karlaftis had his takers as well.
I think you may be working with a little revisionist history here.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
We all have our favorite players. But not all of us wet our pants and throw our toys when the team takes someone else. I was OK with the Cine pick.
If Cine's biggest problem really is mental aptitude, I suspect learning two defenses in two years while spending one rehabbing a serious injury may have put him at a big disadvantage. But I think it's more than that. He struggled with tackling in the preseason too. Good speed, terrific in pursuit, just failed to make the tackle. This happened more than once.
This is absolutely true. Cine has missed some tackles. But is that really the issue? Who on this defense has not missed tackles? Maybe it's worse for a safety. But Harrison Smith has missed tackles. So has Bynum.
This is not a defense of Cine. But it seems like missed tackles does not begin to explain his situation. And how hard is it for a premier athlete to learn how to tackle? Evans was sticking his head in and getting concussions. He got better at it over one off-season. And Cine is a better athlete than Evans.
As for learning a new defense, maybe that is it. But that's where I put some of the blame on the coaches.
Quote: @Havoc1649 said:
@ Bullazin said:
@ Havoc1649 said:
Kwesi fumbled that draft, but especially round 1. I’ve said it a million times, if you don’t have a guy at your pick in round 1, especially the 12th pick in the draft, then you did a craptastic job. There’s no possible way there isn’t a great player available. To ever trade down at all, let alone all the way to 32, just tells me you aren’t up to the job if it doesn’t come with a massive haul.
If the Vikings take the top choices at th time, we have Safety Kyle Hamilton, DT Jordan Davis, or Trent McDuffie on the roster.
This is how organizations don’t get better. They get cute in the draft and f it up. He at least seemed to learn his lesson year two and took the best player.
Nobody here wanted Hamilton or McDuffie. Jordan Davis is no star, but he has been flashy at times and would have been a solid pick there. If either Cine or Asamoah panned out, it would be a productive trade. Right now its not a good trade, well see if it stays that way.
Plenty of people were screaming for Hamilton. He was the most popular choice I remember people wanting. I wanted Davis because we had a desperate need. McDuffie being my second choice. I remember maybe 1 or 2 wanting Jameson. Karlaftis had his takers as well.
I think you may be working with a little revisionist history here.
Yea I was all over Hamilton and/or McDuffie whichever was available. Both were, oh well, a swing and a big miss with Kwesi's first pick ever as a GM. Bullazin were you on here for that draft? Seriously, I don't remember anyone who didn't want one of the three mentioned.
|
