Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
Zimmer's wheels started falling off in 2019. M
You may be right as far as a timeline for his defensive prowess falling off. But his being emotionally unsuited for the job became clear in 2016. All that unfolded during that year made it clear to me his ceiling was DC not HC. I just wish ownership hadn't needed 5 more years to figure it out, but they learn at a glacial pace and/or are way too risk averse to change when it's needed.
Quote: @"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
Zimmer's wheels started falling off in 2019. There were two games in particular, a Packer game in which the cheese went up 21-0 early and a Bronco game, which was very similar. These games, in addition to the NFCC game in Philly, were examples of terrible game prep. Vikings just weren't ready.
They adjusted, shutting down the Packers after that scoring burst and actually coming back to win the Denver game. Zimmer always adjusted well. If he could just have his team more ready at the kickoff.
I never saw time management or in-game calls as a huge problem. All coaches are flawed and make bad decisions. This is just one of those things like passing short of the sticks, that fans of every team think their team is the only one doing it.
And to me, Zimmer's assets as a defensive coach outweighed his poor game prep. Until it didn't, which happened last year. 2020 was an outlier because of all the injuries, but last year was the first year his defensive scheme just seemed outdated. And then something new was added to the liability column: situational football incompetence. I think this, more than anything else, led to his firing.
This is a great assessment of the football acumen part of things. I will add a layer to this - I was surprised at how poor the work environment and culture were @ Eagan. In spite of saying the last 3 seasons, things cant be happy out there.
Thats on RS and Zimmer both.
Agree...but we didn't really find out about that until after he was fired. There were perhaps suggestions here and there, but who knew he was an asshole every day. And I agree that Rick shares some blame. If you're the boss, you don't allow a total lack of communication. That's juvenile and he's just as responsible as Mike for letting that continue.
I'm convinced this is to blame for the Herndon trade. Rick brought in a pass catcher and the football guys seemed to want a blocking guy. How else do you explain that a week after we brought in Herndon, the team signs that blocking TE, can't remember his name.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
Zimmer's wheels started falling off in 2019. There were two games in particular, a Packer game in which the cheese went up 21-0 early and a Bronco game, which was very similar. These games, in addition to the NFCC game in Philly, were examples of terrible game prep. Vikings just weren't ready.
They adjusted, shutting down the Packers after that scoring burst and actually coming back to win the Denver game. Zimmer always adjusted well. If he could just have his team more ready at the kickoff.
I never saw time management or in-game calls as a huge problem. All coaches are flawed and make bad decisions. This is just one of those things like passing short of the sticks, that fans of every team think their team is the only one doing it.
And to me, Zimmer's assets as a defensive coach outweighed his poor game prep. Until it didn't, which happened last year. 2020 was an outlier because of all the injuries, but last year was the first year his defensive scheme just seemed outdated. And then something new was added to the liability column: situational football incompetence. I think this, more than anything else, led to his firing.
This is a great assessment of the football acumen part of things. I will add a layer to this - I was surprised at how poor the work environment and culture were @ Eagan. In spite of saying the last 3 seasons, things cant be happy out there.
Thats on RS and Zimmer both.
Agree...but we didn't really find out about that until after he was fired. There were perhaps suggestions here and there, but who knew he was an asshole every day. And I agree that Rick shares some blame. If you're the boss, you don't allow a total lack of communication. That's juvenile and he's just as responsible as Mike for letting that continue.
I'm convinced this is to blame for the Herndon trade. Rick brought in a pass catcher and the football guys seemed to want a blocking guy. How else do you explain that a week after we brought in Herndon, the team signs that blocking TE, can't remember his name.
Stocker? Or maybe Ellefson.
Quote: @"PurpleCrush" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"purplefaithful" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
Zimmer's wheels started falling off in 2019. There were two games in particular, a Packer game in which the cheese went up 21-0 early and a Bronco game, which was very similar. These games, in addition to the NFCC game in Philly, were examples of terrible game prep. Vikings just weren't ready.
They adjusted, shutting down the Packers after that scoring burst and actually coming back to win the Denver game. Zimmer always adjusted well. If he could just have his team more ready at the kickoff.
I never saw time management or in-game calls as a huge problem. All coaches are flawed and make bad decisions. This is just one of those things like passing short of the sticks, that fans of every team think their team is the only one doing it.
And to me, Zimmer's assets as a defensive coach outweighed his poor game prep. Until it didn't, which happened last year. 2020 was an outlier because of all the injuries, but last year was the first year his defensive scheme just seemed outdated. And then something new was added to the liability column: situational football incompetence. I think this, more than anything else, led to his firing.
This is a great assessment of the football acumen part of things. I will add a layer to this - I was surprised at how poor the work environment and culture were @ Eagan. In spite of saying the last 3 seasons, things cant be happy out there.
Thats on RS and Zimmer both.
Agree...but we didn't really find out about that until after he was fired. There were perhaps suggestions here and there, but who knew he was an asshole every day. And I agree that Rick shares some blame. If you're the boss, you don't allow a total lack of communication. That's juvenile and he's just as responsible as Mike for letting that continue.
I'm convinced this is to blame for the Herndon trade. Rick brought in a pass catcher and the football guys seemed to want a blocking guy. How else do you explain that a week after we brought in Herndon, the team signs that blocking TE, can't remember his name.
Stocker? Or maybe Ellefson.
Yeah, Stocker.
I can't excuse Zimmers attitude or anything like that, but from a strictly coaching perspective I wanted to point out the total team defensive rankings under Zimmer;
2014- 11th
2015- 5th
2016- 6th
2017- 1st
2018- 9th
2019- 6th
2020- 29th
2021- 30th
Which of those numbers is not like the others? Covid hits in 2020 and throws the entire league out of whack with opt outs, quarantines, etc. 2021 Injuries and cornerback depth killed us. I don't believe Zim forgot how to coach defense and think the results of the last two seasons was more of a personnel issue and result.
Who the hell dubbed him KOC. Anything .OC is garbage. Leave that shit in the trash where it belongs.
Anyways, interesting stat line however. Crazy to think. I still believe he can be a good DC somewhere though. Just shouldn't have final say when crucial moments happen.
Quote: @"supafreak84" said:
I can't excuse Zimmers attitude or anything like that, but from a strictly coaching perspective I wanted to point out the total team defensive rankings under Zimmer;
2014- 11th
2015- 5th
2016- 6th
2017- 1st
2018- 9th
2019- 6th
2020- 29th
2021- 30th
Which of those numbers is not like the others? Covid hits in 2020 and throws the entire league out of whack with opt outs, quarantines, etc. 2021 Injuries and cornerback depth killed us. I don't believe Zim forgot how to coach defense and think the results of the last two seasons was more of a personnel issue and result.
The defense finished high in categories, mainly because they shut down bad teams. 2018 season they gave up 21 points per game. When they played playoff teams they gave up 26 points per game. The 10-6 Vikings in 2019 gave up 18.9 points per game...that jumped to 25.4 points per game vs playoff teams. I believe they gave up over 30 per game this past year to playoff teams.
I think he was constantly unprepared for good teams in the last 4 years. I do give him/the defense the benefit of the doubt the last two years because of our opt outs and injuries, but we were unprepared vs Philly in the NFCG and the same goes for the 49ers playoff game where they ran for approximately 1000 yards on us
Quote: @"Hawkvike25" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
I can't excuse Zimmers attitude or anything like that, but from a strictly coaching perspective I wanted to point out the total team defensive rankings under Zimmer;
2014- 11th
2015- 5th
2016- 6th
2017- 1st
2018- 9th
2019- 6th
2020- 29th
2021- 30th
Which of those numbers is not like the others? Covid hits in 2020 and throws the entire league out of whack with opt outs, quarantines, etc. 2021 Injuries and cornerback depth killed us. I don't believe Zim forgot how to coach defense and think the results of the last two seasons was more of a personnel issue and result.
The defense finished high in categories, mainly because they shut down bad teams. 2018 season they gave up 21 points per game. When they played playoff teams they gave up 26 points per game. The 10-6 Vikings in 2019 gave up 18.9 points per game...that jumped to 25.4 points per game vs playoff teams. I believe they gave up over 30 per game this past year to playoff teams.
I think he was constantly unprepared for good teams in the last 4 years. I do give him/the defense the benefit of the doubt the last two years because of our opt outs and injuries, but we were unprepared vs Philly in the NFCG and the same goes for the 49ers playoff game where they ran for approximately 1000 yards on us Yeah there were a lot of duds along the way but for me the final nail in the coffin was Alvin Kamara rushing for 6 effing TDs against us on Christmas. I don't care how depleted your front 7 is, that cannot happen under any circumstances. After that I was done with Zim for good.
Quote: @"pattersaur" said:
@"Hawkvike25" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
I can't excuse Zimmers attitude or anything like that, but from a strictly coaching perspective I wanted to point out the total team defensive rankings under Zimmer;
2014- 11th
2015- 5th
2016- 6th
2017- 1st
2018- 9th
2019- 6th
2020- 29th
2021- 30th
Which of those numbers is not like the others? Covid hits in 2020 and throws the entire league out of whack with opt outs, quarantines, etc. 2021 Injuries and cornerback depth killed us. I don't believe Zim forgot how to coach defense and think the results of the last two seasons was more of a personnel issue and result.
The defense finished high in categories, mainly because they shut down bad teams. 2018 season they gave up 21 points per game. When they played playoff teams they gave up 26 points per game. The 10-6 Vikings in 2019 gave up 18.9 points per game...that jumped to 25.4 points per game vs playoff teams. I believe they gave up over 30 per game this past year to playoff teams.
I think he was constantly unprepared for good teams in the last 4 years. I do give him/the defense the benefit of the doubt the last two years because of our opt outs and injuries, but we were unprepared vs Philly in the NFCG and the same goes for the 49ers playoff game where they ran for approximately 1000 yards on us Yeah there were a lot of duds along the way but for me the final nail in the coffin was Alvin Kamara rushing for 6 effing TDs against us on Christmas. I don't care how depleted your front 7 is, that cannot happen under any circumstances. After that I was done with Zim for good.
That game really bothered me too as towards the end guys weren't even trying. SF playoff game really bothered me on both ends as it felt like we knew exactly what they were going to do on offense and defense and neither our offense or defense were doing anything to stop it. Final drive of the Lions loss this year was the ultimate "I want Zimmer fired right now" as that is probably the epitome of how to not run your defense when trying to win. That would have given Dre 5 games to show what he can do as interim HC, which I thought he had earned. Oh well....on to greener pastures
Quote: @"pattersaur" said:
@"Hawkvike25" said:
@"supafreak84" said:
I can't excuse Zimmers attitude or anything like that, but from a strictly coaching perspective I wanted to point out the total team defensive rankings under Zimmer;
2014- 11th
2015- 5th
2016- 6th
2017- 1st
2018- 9th
2019- 6th
2020- 29th
2021- 30th
Which of those numbers is not like the others? Covid hits in 2020 and throws the entire league out of whack with opt outs, quarantines, etc. 2021 Injuries and cornerback depth killed us. I don't believe Zim forgot how to coach defense and think the results of the last two seasons was more of a personnel issue and result.
The defense finished high in categories, mainly because they shut down bad teams. 2018 season they gave up 21 points per game. When they played playoff teams they gave up 26 points per game. The 10-6 Vikings in 2019 gave up 18.9 points per game...that jumped to 25.4 points per game vs playoff teams. I believe they gave up over 30 per game this past year to playoff teams.
I think he was constantly unprepared for good teams in the last 4 years. I do give him/the defense the benefit of the doubt the last two years because of our opt outs and injuries, but we were unprepared vs Philly in the NFCG and the same goes for the 49ers playoff game where they ran for approximately 1000 yards on us Yeah there were a lot of duds along the way but for me the final nail in the coffin was Alvin Kamara rushing for 6 effing TDs against us on Christmas. I don't care how depleted your front 7 is, that cannot happen under any circumstances. After that I was done with Zim for good.
Well Zimmer did say that was the worst defense he'd ever coached after that Saints game, but he must have not foreseen what was to come last season which was statistically worse.
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