Quote: @VikingOracle said:
@ comet52 said:
I grew up in Mpls, started school there over 50 years ago and don't remember any religion being taught at all, unless "under god" in the pledge of allegiance counts. Matt Birk is peddling baloney.
I agree; Matt should come forward and explain when religion was first introduced into public education. Then, he should read the Constitution.
Aha!
So I mark you down as a "strict Constitutionalist"? (ala Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Barrett)
Or...is the Constitution a "living, breathing document?" (ala Breyer, Sotomayor, Kagan...and sometimes Roberts)
Can we count on you as an advocate of "strict Constitutionalism" on every ensuing topic? 
The establishment clause..."the govt shall establish no religion"....where did citizen Birk's opinion say he supported the govt's "establishment" of (tacit) Christianity? No where.
Ya'll inferred it.
Quote: @VikingOracle said:
I can make the opposite argument. We have had the best educational system in the world until recently when politics/government started to starve it (beginning with teachers' salaries). Think bout how many kids were in a class while you were growing up and compare it to today. JMHO.
More money is spent on education year after year while grades continue to fall. Look where the highest dollars per student is spent and you will find the lowesr test scores and graduation rates. Look at private schools and yes that includes catholic and other religous based schooloing and you will see higher scores with a far lower dollar per student average. So, you must ask why the inverse outcome of raising educational budgets?
Quote: @rf54 said:
@ VikingOracle said:
I can make the opposite argument. We have had the best educational system in the world until recently when politics/government started to starve it (beginning with teachers' salaries). Think bout how many kids were in a class while you were growing up and compare it to today. JMHO.
More money is spent on education year after year while grades continue to fall. Look where the highest dollars per student is spent and you will find the lowesr test scores and graduation rates. Look at private schools and yes that includes catholic and other religous based schooloing and you will see higher scores with a far lower dollar per student average. So, you must ask why the inverse outcome of raising educational budgets?
Not sure about that. Plus, where the most money spent per student is so heavily skewed for New York, obviously cost of living geography has a lot to do with those costs. Many of these districts are on Long Island....and they've got a problem:
https://newyorkschooltalk.org/2019/01/sa...s-schools/
"Out of the 50 school districts that found themselves at the top of the list for the highest expenditures per pupil, 38 school districts were in the state of New York."
https://www.aaastateofplay.com/school-di...r-student/
There is no 'inverse outcome', its way more complicated than that.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
Over 4,000 religions in the world....
But mine is the right one.
Having taught for a long time, I can tell you how critical it is to keep religion, politics, and gender identification out of the classroom.
Perhaps the focus should be critical thinking, problem solving and reasoning
Not that I disagree, but how has that been working out lately?
IMO government run education is the issue. What the govt funds, the govt controls. And the govt only cares about more govt.
Oddly enough schools are now adopting “Social Emotional Learning” programs.
Programs like “Second Step”.
These are online lessons districts now subscribe to in order to teach things like self-esteem, cooperation, team building, positive thinking, gender, race, religious equity,
breaking “vicious cycles”, coping skills, etc. They have scenarios for each skill, and students are shown examples of appropriate responses. Ethics based questions - What would you do if.....(There is a new student in your class and they dont know where to go for lunch....What are different ways to deal with someone who is bullying you or a friend)
Naturally there have been SOME teacher backlash, but I say if it helps just ONE KID in each class, then its worth it. Frankly, Id rather a student have coping skills and a positive self image then know the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
Sadly it should be the parents teaching the kids the value of life so they can understand their even their life has value. I too would like the children to have coping skills, but I would say that many of the issues are brought on by government involvement in education. What we see as success are just coping skills dealing with the failure of the system. Removing all notion of God from schools/life is promotion of the state religion, explicitly what is forbidden in the constitution.
That doesn't mean I want teachers being preachers, it just means that a child should be free to publicly express their faith.
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
@ greediron said:
@ Vanguard83 said:
Over 4,000 religions in the world....
But mine is the right one.
Having taught for a long time, I can tell you how critical it is to keep religion, politics, and gender identification out of the classroom.
Perhaps the focus should be critical thinking, problem solving and reasoning
Not that I disagree, but how has that been working out lately?
IMO government run education is the issue. What the govt funds, the govt controls. And the govt only cares about more govt.
Oddly enough schools are now adopting “Social Emotional Learning” programs.
Programs like “Second Step”.
These are online lessons districts now subscribe to in order to teach things like self-esteem, cooperation, team building, positive thinking, gender, race, religious equity,
breaking “vicious cycles”, coping skills, etc. They have scenarios for each skill, and students are shown examples of appropriate responses. Ethics based questions - What would you do if.....(There is a new student in your class and they dont know where to go for lunch....What are different ways to deal with someone who is bullying you or a friend)
Naturally there have been SOME teacher backlash, but I say if it helps just ONE KID in each class, then its worth it. Frankly, Id rather a student have coping skills and a positive self image then know the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo
It is important to address emotional intelligence. I know the argument is that parents should be addressing coping skills but not all parents are doing this. I think teachers are also getting the short end of the stick as generations go by. Teacher involvement has changed. Parent involvement has changed. These things make it harder for teachers and students. There needs to be a reevaluation and clearer statements of goals and expectations for the future of education in the United States.
I have no problem in what he said.
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