Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ Vikergirl said:
"Cousins has all the talent, but we have to teach him how to play like we want him to play".
This quote says a lot. I know he was the best available option at the time and he leveraged that for a great deal. But he is going to be halfway through that deal soon, I don't know how successful they will be with teaching him to change anything. Good luck with that.
The problem with this is the way Zimmer wants QBs to play is to be game managers. Protect the football, hand it off, and make good throws on 3rd down. That is great in theory but rarely does that brand of football actually develop talent. The only top-tier QB in the league I can think of who plays this way is Russell Wilson in Seattle. But he is also a running threat, which is an entire skill set that Kirk doesn't possess.
For now Cousins is the guy and I hope he plays better than he did yesterday, but looking ahead, I worry that Zimmer's "brand of football" is not compatible with drafting and developing a franchise quarterback.
I don't think that's always been true though. Part of the reason we replaced Keenum with Cousins is because we wanted a stronger arm and more explosive downfield plays. But what we didn't know then was that two years later we'd have a chance to bring in Gary Kubiak and his wildly successful outside zone running game.
The irony is that now, with a good defense and one of the NFL's best running games, Keenum might be better suited to run what this team has become. Can't win for losing.
This quote says it all: "Cousins has all the talent, but we have to teach him how to play like we want him to play." I'm not sure if that can mean anything other than teach him to play more conservative, to be more of a game manager.
Quote: @HappyViking said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I'll say this much...Cousins was the best option at the time to fulfill the QB slot...it's pretty obvious the weight of expectations is too great for him...barring injury, he's our QB the next 30 games...
Yep, and he was exactly that kind of QB when he was with the Skins too. Back then, were any of you worried about playing Washington with Cousins as the QB? I know I never was, and I bet nobody is really worried about playing the Vikings with Cousins at QB either.
KC is like the Vikings new version of Wade Wilson. Welcome to 8-8 purgatory.
I don't know about "worried", but he made some really great throws against us in 2016 (in which Washington beat us) and in 2017 (in which we beat them). In 2016, he had a 110 QB rating against us... and in 2017, it was 79. I'm just saying: it's not like the guy has been a dog his whole career. He's been good at times... and bad at times. But he's been bad enough times, that I think it's safe to say he's not a "franchise" QB.
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ HappyViking said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I'll say this much...Cousins was the best option at the time to fulfill the QB slot...it's pretty obvious the weight of expectations is too great for him...barring injury, he's our QB the next 30 games...
Yep, and he was exactly that kind of QB when he was with the Skins too. Back then, were any of you worried about playing Washington with Cousins as the QB? I know I never was, and I bet nobody is really worried about playing the Vikings with Cousins at QB either.
KC is like the Vikings new version of Wade Wilson. Welcome to 8-8 purgatory.
I don't know about "worried", but he made some really great throws against us in 2016 (in which Washington beat us) and in 2017 (in which we beat them). In 2016, he had a 110 QB rating against us... and in 2017, it was 79. I'm just saying: it's not like the guy has been a dog his whole career. He's been good at times... and bad at times. But he's been bad enough times, that I think it's safe to say he's not a "franchise" QB.
I agree, pumpf. He's not a franchise QB. He can make great plays, and win games, but when the going gets tough, that's were we see his limitations.
BTW, I meant no disrepect for the late Wade Wilson.
Quote: @pattersaur said:
@ AGRforever said:
I'm the outlier. I think Zimmer is a damn good coach and don't want to see him go at all. I think the best course it to draft a QB with our #1 next year and spin the QB wheel of death and see where we land.
Yall don't remember how shitty the Vikings were prior to Zimmer. We had one good year in over a decade due to Farve. Now every year we think we've got a chance. It was one game, a game that we probably should have ended up winning even with 3 turnovers.
I think most fans still like Zimmer. And most people are starting to think we need to draft a QB. The issue is trying to figure out if those 2 things (Zimmer at HC, Rookie QB) can thrive together. I genuinely don't know. I'm still trying to work through my thoughts on it ha. Luckily the draft offseason isn't for awhile.
He drafted Teddy and played him. I think Zimmer might even do better with a rookie QB the Cousins. He can get one with the traits he wants and coach him to play exactly like he wants.
No offense to the OP, but the "what if" in the subject line should be "since he's not" (and it's been 18 games, not 2. MORE if you count his years in Washington. Again, not trying to bust balls here, just sticking with the facts).
Having lived in the Charlotte for the last 14+ years, I've met/known a LOT of Redskins fans (prior to the Panthers entry into the NFL in '95, this was a HUGE Redskins fanbase area) through work, my childrens' school friends and parents, church, neighbors, etc. Not a single one regretted Kirk moving on. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. There was not a single fan (out of the literal dozens that I spoke with) that wished he re-signed with Washington, and the reasoning was almost unanimous.....when the game's mattered MOST, Kirk performed his worst, almost without exception. This reality is Impossible for any logical Viking fan to dispute thus far.....there is only HOPE that it can change. And that's all it is at this point...hope or blind faith, take your pick. Kirk's on-field performances are indisputable. Look no further than the fact that Kirk's BEST performance as a Viking (and arguably, his best game ever) resulted in a fucking TIE!! Yeah, blame the kicker, but remember this....the vast majority of FG attempts are the result of an offense's FAILURE to convert on 3rd down. In other words, a consolation prize. That game sums up Cousins' career. Looks good on paper, but doesn't mean shit in the win column.
I expressed my concern at the time (just like when RS pissed away draft picks on Bradford and Ponder) of Cousins' signing that I am very leery of putting so much faith into a QB to lead the team to a SB Championship, when he has exhibited an alarming propensity for crapping the bed in bigtime games (now that I write that out, maybe THAT'S why Ricky & Mickey loved him.....kindred spirits).
Yeah, I know, I know. Still plenty of time....the Vikings have the best-est roster in the NFL....the best-est team intro.....the best-est RB.....the best-est WR duo, yadda, yadda, yadda. Whoopee-fucking doo.
For ONCE let's see the RECORD, not just in the regular season but in the PLAYOFF season, actually REFLECT those arrogant, unsubstantiated claims. It's damn near impossible to have such a litany of "best-ests" and be so frequently the "least-ests.
No more excuses. Get to the fucking playoffs and WIN at least 2 games or the Wilf's need to shitcan the Un-Dynamic Duo and look to 2021 for a restart. In other words, "SHOW US THE BABY!!" (sound familiar, Mike?)
Time for Vikings fans to face facts : Zimmer and Spielman have been in the NFL for a combined 60+ years (maybe even more), Cousins for 8. For every Vermeil, Elway and Gannon, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of examples proving that HC's, GM's and QB's do NOT age like fine wine....they simply sour and get more expensive and disappointing.
Prove me wrong Mick and Dick. I have no problem eating crow. After all, I've been eating the shit you've served up since 2006 (actually I've been chowing down since the '60's, but I can't blame S & M for THAT)....crow can't be THAT much worse!
Peace.
Quote: @HappyViking said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I'll say this much...Cousins was the best option at the time to fulfill the QB slot...it's pretty obvious the weight of expectations is too great for him...barring injury, he's our QB the next 30 games...
Yep, and he was exactly that kind of QB when he was with the Skins too. Back then, were any of you worried about playing Washington with Cousins as the QB? I know I never was, and I bet nobody is really worried about playing the Vikings with Cousins at QB either.
KC is like the Vikings new version of Wade Wilson. Welcome to 8-8 purgatory.
Kirk Cousins voted as the most overrated quarterback in the NFL
Quote: @pumpf said:
@ HappyViking said:
@"BarrNone55" said:
I'll say this much...Cousins was the best option at the time to fulfill the QB slot...it's pretty obvious the weight of expectations is too great for him...barring injury, he's our QB the next 30 games...
Yep, and he was exactly that kind of QB when he was with the Skins too. Back then, were any of you worried about playing Washington with Cousins as the QB? I know I never was, and I bet nobody is really worried about playing the Vikings with Cousins at QB either.
KC is like the Vikings new version of Wade Wilson. Welcome to 8-8 purgatory.
I don't know about "worried", but he made some really great throws against us in 2016 (in which Washington beat us) and in 2017 (in which we beat them). In 2016, he had a 110 QB rating against us... and in 2017, it was 79. I'm just saying: it's not like the guy has been a dog his whole career. He's been good at times... and bad at times. But he's been bad enough times, that I think it's safe to say he's not a "franchise" QB.
I find that interesting in 2016 he had a QB rating of 110 against a MN team that did not finish above .500
Then in 2017 he had a QB rate of 79 against a MN team that finished above .500
Quote: @njvike said:
No offense to the OP, but the "what if" in the subject line should be "since he's not" (and it's been 18 games, not 2. MORE if you count his years in Washington. Again, not trying to bust balls here, just sticking with the facts).
Having lived in the Charlotte for the last 14+ years, I've met/known a LOT of Redskins fans (prior to the Panthers entry into the NFL in '95, this was a HUGE Redskins fanbase area) through work, my childrens' school friends and parents, church, neighbors, etc. Not a single one regretted Kirk moving on. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. There was not a single fan (out of the literal dozens that I spoke with) that wished he re-signed with Washington, and the reasoning was almost unanimous.....when the game's mattered MOST, Kirk performed his worst, almost without exception. This reality is Impossible for any logical Viking fan to dispute thus far.....there is only HOPE that it can change. And that's all it is at this point...hope or blind faith, take your pick. Kirk's on-field performances are indisputable. Look no further than the fact that Kirk's BEST performance as a Viking (and arguably, his best game ever) resulted in a fucking TIE!! Yeah, blame the kicker, but remember this....the vast majority of FG attempts are the result of an offense's FAILURE to convert on 3rd down. In other words, a consolation prize. That game sums up Cousins' career. Looks good on paper, but doesn't mean shit in the win column.
I expressed my concern at the time (just like when RS pissed away draft picks on Bradford and Ponder) of Cousins' signing that I am very leery of putting so much faith into a QB to lead the team to a SB Championship, when he has exhibited an alarming propensity for crapping the bed in bigtime games (now that I write that out, maybe THAT'S why Ricky & Mickey loved him.....kindred spirits).
Yeah, I know, I know. Still plenty of time....the Vikings have the best-est roster in the NFL....the best-est team intro.....the best-est RB.....the best-est WR duo, yadda, yadda, yadda. Whoopee-fucking doo.
For ONCE let's see the RECORD, not just in the regular season but in the PLAYOFF season, actually REFLECT those arrogant, unsubstantiated claims. It's damn near impossible to have such a litany of "best-ests" and be so frequently the "least-ests.
No more excuses. Get to the fucking playoffs and WIN at least 2 games or the Wilf's need to shitcan the Un-Dynamic Duo and look to 2021 for a restart. In other words, "SHOW US THE BABY!!" (sound familiar, Mike?)
Time for Vikings fans to face facts : Zimmer and Spielman have been in the NFL for a combined 60+ years (maybe even more), Cousins for 8. For every Vermeil, Elway and Gannon, there are dozens, maybe hundreds, of examples proving that HC's, GM's and QB's do NOT age like fine wine....they simply sour and get more expensive and disappointing.
Prove me wrong Mick and Dick. I have no problem eating crow. After all, I've been eating the shit you've served up since 2006 (actually I've been chowing down since the '60's, but I can't blame S & M for THAT)....crow can't be THAT much worse!
Peace.
No offense taken and I don't really disagree with any of your Cousins analysis. I was really trying to start a post about the next steps after Cousins, not just another debate about HIM. I expected there to be plenty of those.
I should have titled this, "What will the Vikings do after Cousins?"
I'm aligned with you at least to the degree that I would not want Rick Spielman picking the Vikings' next quarterback. I truly hope that the day Spielman walks into the Wilfs' office and says the words, "We need to replace Cousins, I want to..." - they press a big button that opens the floor under Rick and drops him into a giant tank full of hungry sharks.
My biggest fear is that they don't press that button and let Spielman try again. Plenty of NFL owners are willing to put up with GMs and coaches that keep their team above the 7-win line because that's enough to keep the hometown fans filling the stadium every year.
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