Quote: @supafreak84 said:
Just my opinion on Barr, I'm happy to have him signed and he is still only 26....but he needs to get back to making impact plays for this defense. I know he was a little banged up last season but teams really targeted him in matchups and he got exposed a little bit in coverage. I worry about that continuing to be a problem with the upper echelon teams in our conference like the Rams, Saints, and Bears.
I'm not so sure we wouldn't have been better off letting him walk in free agency, putting that money into the offensive line and drafting Devin Bush in the 1st round, who gives you all the blitzing impact Barr does but is much better as a matchup coverage linebacker.
Given how the Vikings scheme their defense, I fear Devin Bush would have been too small. Like the player just not sure he would be the best fit here.
I watched both Bush and White all year figuring Barr would leave. Neither one is any better in coverage than Kendricks. Wilson is the best cover LB in this class and will be available in the 2nd.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ greediron said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Tyr said:
What's the consensus on Rhode's struggles last season? Banged up, teams willing to go after him, change in rule emphasis making it harder for him to play physical, or some combination? I don't think that age is a factor yet, but he definitely did not look like the same player. If he can get back on track, then that would be a big gain for the defense.
Rhodes was definitely hobbled at times last year, which was probably the leading contributor. But I do think this whole idea X fell off a cliff is more media hype than actuality. He wasn't the all-pro he was in 2017 but he still was well above average in nearly every coverage snap and graded out as a top half CB1. CB is also typically a position you see a lot of performance variance year over year. If you want to go with PFF, his grades aren't as good. But you also have to consider that he gets the #1 receiving option each game and shadows that player around the field.
He shut down about 5 top WRs in a row in 2017.
The rules change definitely hurt him as he plays very physical. And with that, the scheme had to change. But he still was pretty good last year, just not as physically imposing as 2017.
IIRC Rhodes was drawing more than normal PI and holding calls early in the year.. IMO the rule changes disallowing most all contact after 5 yards really hurt his physical style of guiding receivers off routes, I dont know how well he is adjusting but the later half of the year he was dealing with hamstring issues so its really hard to say one way or the other...although he doesnt look near as good in a zone scheme so that may have had some to do with his issues early on as well. I'd tend to disagree on the penalties. In 2017 he struggled with illegal contact as well. It was a point of emphasis in 2018 but it didn't really take away from his season minus the Rams game. The scheme didn't really impact him at all either since they let him play straight up shadow man with a built in protection for crossers.
I guess I get the point that people want more out of him after they saw what he was capable of in 2017. But there are very few corners who can play the role he does in the Vikings defense. Maybe 5 or 6 others across the league.
you are right... i didnt realize PFR had a penalties tab, thanks.
Geoff can probably address this bette than me but last year sure seemed likke we'd go long stretches where our interior D did not get that extra push up the middle allowing Qbs too much time and comfort stepping up into the pocket to pick apart both lbs and dbs.
Quote: @Akvike said:
Geoff can probably address this bette than me but last year sure seemed likke we'd go long stretches where our interior D did not get that extra push up the middle allowing Qbs too much time and comfort stepping up into the pocket to pick apart both lbs and dbs.
Both agree and disagree. They generated a lot of interior pressure but didn't necessarily get a lot of sacks. I think the D-line played ok in the passing game last season and had stretches of pure dominance. The larger issue was the inability to stop the run. When you begin to have that issue your pass rush indirectly suffers because of it. That would be some of the longer stretches, when teams were ramming is down the D's throat.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Akvike said:
Geoff can probably address this bette than me but last year sure seemed likke we'd go long stretches where our interior D did not get that extra push up the middle allowing Qbs too much time and comfort stepping up into the pocket to pick apart both lbs and dbs.
Both agree and disagree. They generated a lot of interior pressure but didn't necessarily get a lot of sacks. I think the D-line played ok in the passing game last season and had stretches of pure dominance. The larger issue was the inability to stop the run. When you begin to have that issue your pass rush indirectly suffers because of it. That would be some of the longer stretches, when teams were ramming is down the D's throat.
Where were the stretches where our D-line showed pure dominance, and against which teams? My guess you're referencing against weaker teams, and not at key points during the season. The GB, Rams, Buffalo, and both Bears games were far from dominant. The rest of the schedule I would expect us to to dominate to a degree.
Aside from Hunter, the line was meh. Attempting to put lipstick on the pig is a waste of time. Could we have been worse? Sure. We could also be worse this coming year with Griff and the big Goon being another year older. We need some new blood along the line
The Bears owned the interior of the line last year. The way to beat them was to put the ball in Trubiski's hand. But they couldn't do it, because the interior of the line got pushed back 4 or 5 yards, even when they knew the run was coming. Physical domination. Both games.
At this point in time, we can pat ourselves on the back for resigning players on our roster, but those players were part of a .500 team.
Given the schedule, I don't see the Vikings being more than a .500 unless they do more than maintain their current roster.
So while I am happy to have Barr back, I doubt it will make one bit of difference unless they get an offensive line.
We already know Cousins can't carry the offense.
Quote: @mgobluevikes said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ Akvike said:
Geoff can probably address this bette than me but last year sure seemed likke we'd go long stretches where our interior D did not get that extra push up the middle allowing Qbs too much time and comfort stepping up into the pocket to pick apart both lbs and dbs.
Both agree and disagree. They generated a lot of interior pressure but didn't necessarily get a lot of sacks. I think the D-line played ok in the passing game last season and had stretches of pure dominance. The larger issue was the inability to stop the run. When you begin to have that issue your pass rush indirectly suffers because of it. That would be some of the longer stretches, when teams were ramming is down the D's throat.
Where were the stretches where our D-line showed pure dominance, and against which teams? My guess you're referencing against weaker teams, and not at key points during the season. The GB, Rams, Buffalo, and both Bears games were far from dominant. The rest of the schedule I would expect us to to dominate to a degree.
Aside from Hunter, the line was meh. Attempting to put lipstick on the pig is a waste of time. Could we have been worse? Sure. We could also be worse this coming year with Griff and the big Goon being another year older. We need some new blood along the line
I agree with you. Their dominance stood out against two weaker teams in Miami (10 sacks) and Detroit (9 & 3 sacks) where the pass rush had a chance to tee off, but they had a much more difficult time stopping better teams. Granted, that's expected to a degree, but they really weren't able to step up to the challenge like they did in past years. The pass rush was still adequate, but as Guru mentioned, teams were able to run all over them and take away the threat of the pass rush. I think that Griffen can have a bounce back year if things go right and we'll need to hope that some time to recover from injuries and a more stout run defender next to him will help Joseph, but they really do need to start looking for the future at those positions. There are some options on the roster, but really only Weatherly looks decent at this point and we're still waiting to see if Johnson and Holmes can step up into bigger positions. They at least tried to have some players developing ahead of time, but it doesn't always work. There are also some fringe players like Ade Aruna, Tashawn Bower, Hercules Mata'afa, & Ifeadi Odenigbo that were all either hurt or showed some promise. Maybe we luck out and one of those guys is capable of a bigger role. The coaching is there to develop talent on the DL, but if the OL were in a better spot, then you could make a strong case to draft a pass rusher. Maybe Barr's role will change and they start using him more as a rusher?
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