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The Vikings have a very good roster. It is not perfect, but it's more than solid. I know there are doubts about the OL, as there should be, but this is not about the OL. This cause for concern is about depth at the most important position in the game.
It is natural to think we upgraded by going from Case Keenum to Kirk Cousins. But really, we went from Case Keenum to Trevor Siemian. Last season, when Sam went down Case stepped in and did a really good job. Good enough to be one of the top FA this past off-season.
Nobody knows who will be the next Case Keenum. But I would bet it is not Siemian. Maybe he is playing well in practice. I have no idea about that. But he has looked pretty awful in the preseason games. And I know they are just preseason games, but they are still football competitions where players are trying very hard to play their best. His play has been bad.
And it may not even be a lack of talent, although I have not seen him display much. It is more than that. When Zimmer was asked last season what he liked about Case, he could not say his strong arm or the way he goes through his progressions, the way defenders bounce off him. He said, Case has big balls. And that was about right. It was Case's attitude, his ballsiness, more than any physical QB traits that stood out.
And it is the lack of balls and attitude that stands out for Siemian. If Case had "it," Siemian does not. I don't know that Sloter does, but he shows a lot more of "it" than does Siemian.
Of course, nobody wants to lose their starting QB to injury, but it happens. It happened last season to the Vikings, to Philly, to Green Bay, ... Some teams had backup QBs that exceeded expectations. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Siemian is a competent backup QB. I hope we do not have to find out the hard way.
cut his ass...  B)
I think the the new system we are running plays into it a little bit. Not only is Trevor learning to run a new offense, all of his teammates on the 2nd and 3rd+ teams were also learning it. He not only had to worry about where the ball was supposed to go (his normal job), he had to have his targets on the same page and decide if they were doing the right thing. He was playing with a larger sense of uncertainty about what he and his teammates are doing than starters should.
Keenum came into a new system (for himself) last year and got to play with a few guys who were very comfortable with what we want them to do. Protections, routes... he was able to jump in with the starters and stop worrying about what they were doing. He was able to pick it all up, work on himself within the offense, and apply it to our offensive machine.
... now I'm not saying i'm not worried about Siemien, lol! He played very timid in the preseason. If you told me the "golden rule" was "0 yards is better than a mistake/turnover," i'd buy it. That's how he played. He didn't force anything. He didn't really take any shots. He pretty much just stood there for 4 games and conducted downs into punts. Someone compared him to Ponder and I felt that a little bit; not so much in his style but his attitude from down to down. No urgency, no desire to gamble, little confidence in the routes/progressions.
Keenum generally threw the ball all over the place in pre-season. We ran plays that matched his talent and ability and he took advantage of the opportunities. Siemien was a lot more reserved with his arm, and the playcalling was hard to digest or understand as Seimien looked uninterested and lost. Keenum knew where the ball should go; Siemien looks more handcuffed to a "design" where his uncertainty killed a lot of plays without a shot being made to hit a WR.
I hope that goes away for Siemien as we start to become this playbook/offense. I hope if he plays that what we saw was just a symptom of preseason play in a new system with 10 other guys who are handicapping his drive/ability to make a play. I hope now that we are down to the real 53 that all of these QBs can dial it in - the coaches have eliminated mistakes and some distractions with these cuts. This is the point of the year where we no longer focus on what we "want to do." We focus hard on "what we do." I think the backup QBs will start benefiting a lot from more consistency in practice.
Quote: @BlackMagic7 said:
I think the the new system we are running plays into it a little bit. Not only is Trevor learning to run a new offense, all of his teammates on the 2nd and 3rd+ teams were also learning it. He not only had to worry about where the ball was supposed to go (his normal job), he had to have his targets on the same page and decide if they were doing the right thing. He was playing with a larger sense of uncertainty about what he and his teammates are doing than starters should.
Keenum came into a new system (for himself) last year and got to play with a few guys who were very comfortable with what we want them to do. Protections, routes... he was able to jump in with the starters and stop worrying about what they were doing. He was able to pick it all up, work on himself within the offense, and apply it to our offensive machine.
... now I'm not saying i'm not worried about Siemien, lol! He played very timid in the preseason. If you told me the "golden rule" was "0 yards is better than a mistake/turnover," i'd buy it. That's how he played. He didn't force anything. He didn't really take any shots. He pretty much just stood there for 4 games and conducted downs into punts. Someone compared him to Ponder and I felt that a little bit; not so much in his style but his attitude from down to down. No urgency, no desire to gamble, little confidence in the routes/progressions.
Keenum generally threw the ball all over the place in pre-season. We ran plays that matched his talent and ability and he took advantage of the opportunities. Siemien was a lot more reserved with his arm, and the playcalling was hard to digest or understand as Seimien looked uninterested and lost. Keenum knew where the ball should go; Siemien looks more handcuffed to a "design" where his uncertainty killed a lot of plays without a shot being made to hit a WR.
I hope that goes away for Siemien as we start to become this playbook/offense. I hope if he plays that what we saw was just a symptom of preseason play in a new system with 10 other guys who are handicapping his drive/ability to make a play. I hope now that we are down to the real 53 that all of these QBs can dial it in - the coaches have eliminated mistakes and some distractions with these cuts. This is the point of the year where we no longer focus on what we "want to do." We focus hard on "what we do." I think the backup QBs will start benefiting a lot from more consistency in practice.
I think you summed it up pretty well. Good post. Trevor was kind of an unknown to me before we signed him. I was unexcited I'll say that. I thought he was a bad QB even for a back up. I know a guy who's a Bronco fan. I asked him about Trevor after the trade. What you were saying about his timid play. Fear of the mistake over confidence to make the play. These were some of the things my Bronco friend said. So I watched for it this pre-season. Maybe it influenced my judgement. However after watching him now I did see it. I seen in Sloter some of the balls Case showed. With a stronger arm it seems. I think our depth chart has it wrong. Trevor should be 3rd or on the street. Just my opinion.
It's difficult to say. Last season, the Vikings ended up having a great backup QB situation, but it didn't necessarily seem that way. Keenum was coming off a bad season with the Rams and Teddy was coming back from a horrific injury. Siemian did decent in the first preseason game and was forgettable in the last 3 games. That being said, he does have starting experience and was decent at times for the Broncos who had a pretty flawed roster. He would have better skill players if he had to play meaningful time with the Vikings, which may even things out, but he does concern me. The silver lining is that Sloter seems to be taking a step in the right direction, but his production was against second and third stringers.
Quote: @BlackMagic7 said:
I think the the new system we are running plays into it a little bit. Not only is Trevor learning to run a new offense, all of his teammates on the 2nd and 3rd+ teams were also learning it. He not only had to worry about where the ball was supposed to go (his normal job), he had to have his targets on the same page and decide if they were doing the right thing. He was playing with a larger sense of uncertainty about what he and his teammates are doing than starters should.
Keenum came into a new system (for himself) last year and got to play with a few guys who were very comfortable with what we want them to do. Protections, routes... he was able to jump in with the starters and stop worrying about what they were doing. He was able to pick it all up, work on himself within the offense, and apply it to our offensive machine.
... now I'm not saying i'm not worried about Siemien, lol! He played very timid in the preseason. If you told me the "golden rule" was "0 yards is better than a mistake/turnover," i'd buy it. That's how he played. He didn't force anything. He didn't really take any shots. He pretty much just stood there for 4 games and conducted downs into punts. Someone compared him to Ponder and I felt that a little bit; not so much in his style but his attitude from down to down. No urgency, no desire to gamble, little confidence in the routes/progressions.
Keenum generally threw the ball all over the place in pre-season. We ran plays that matched his talent and ability and he took advantage of the opportunities. Siemien was a lot more reserved with his arm, and the playcalling was hard to digest or understand as Seimien looked uninterested and lost. Keenum knew where the ball should go; Siemien looks more handcuffed to a "design" where his uncertainty killed a lot of plays without a shot being made to hit a WR.
I hope that goes away for Siemien as we start to become this playbook/offense. I hope if he plays that what we saw was just a symptom of preseason play in a new system with 10 other guys who are handicapping his drive/ability to make a play. I hope now that we are down to the real 53 that all of these QBs can dial it in - the coaches have eliminated mistakes and some distractions with these cuts. This is the point of the year where we no longer focus on what we "want to do." We focus hard on "what we do." I think the backup QBs will start benefiting a lot from more consistency in practice.
From what I’ve heard - and I assume others here have heard the same - Siemian has outplayed Sloter in practice. So I’m not sure if lack of familiarity with the offense is really to blame.
I think he sees our team has a defensive head coach and a really good defense and thinks he does not have to win the game. He just wants to make sure his mistake is not the reason the team loses.
Sloter goes out to make plays.
In practice, against our defense, it’s a different story. Cousins probably has some success - the most of the three. Siemian is ever cautious and makes few mistakes. And Sloter, with his inexperience and against our defense, trying to make plays leads to turnovers and sacks. He needs more experience.
But as between Sloter and Siemian, I prefer Sloter’s attitude.
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