Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
Of course they (Bridgewater's camp) don't think it will toll, as they don't want it to toll and they are going to fight it if it does. That doesn't mean it won't.
Exactly - this "report" is likely from Bridgewater's agent, making a story.
For everyone asking why this wasn't already resolved: when I read the CBA, I think this has been - in week 6 of the 2017 season and Bridgewater was on PUP:
Quote: a player on the final year of their rookie deal will have their
contract carry over to the following year if they are physically unable
to perform through Week 6. Bridgewater was on the Physically Unable to
Perform list through Week 6 this year
It's pretty clear - his contract already did toll. What needs to be decided? From the team's perspective, nothing. Default interpretation is that his contract tolls in 2018. What "decision" are we awaiting? The only question is whether Bridgewater challenges the team. This "report" is some passive-aggressive message from Bridgewater's agent that says, "We're waiting for a contract offer for 2018". He has not received an offer from the Vikings because Bridgewater is under contract to the Vikings for 2018 per terms of the CBA.
Yes, everything you're saying is true, but if you are familiar with the law, you're aware that attorneys can and often dispute the language in an official agreement down to what the definition of "IS" is, so I would not be so confident.
It's for this reason, and EVERYONE'S desire to avoid all that, I think the Vikings simply offer Teddy a reasonable short-term contract--one that allows them to sign another QB. T
he REAL question here is the timing. Do they do that BEFORE they approach Case, Kirk and/or Sam? What would the impact be on those negotiations if they feel the Vikings are attached to Teddy at the hip? Sam and Teddy are really the only option that allows you to keep two. And even that will be difficult. Every other option IMO requires you to commit to ONE. Case will not want to be here if we sign Teddy. And vice versa. No one will want to stay if we shoot the moon for Cousins. All of these guys will want--and an argument could be made that each deserves a shot at--a starting opportunity.
I base this on nothing, but my gut tells me the team really wants a long term solution here, and is trying to decide between Teddy and Kirk, while they flirt with the idea of tagging and trading Case, all the while hoping that no one offers Bradford a starting job.
But hey, no pressure, Rick. Nothing riding on this...
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
Of course they (Bridgewater's camp) don't think it will toll, as they don't want it to toll and they are going to fight it if it does. That doesn't mean it won't.
Exactly - this "report" is likely from Bridgewater's agent, making a story.
For everyone asking why this wasn't already resolved: when I read the CBA, I think this has been - in week 6 of the 2017 season and Bridgewater was on PUP:
Quote: a player on the final year of their rookie deal will have their
contract carry over to the following year if they are physically unable
to perform through Week 6. Bridgewater was on the Physically Unable to
Perform list through Week 6 this year
It's pretty clear - his contract already did toll. What needs to be decided? From the team's perspective, nothing. Default interpretation is that his contract tolls in 2018. What "decision" are we awaiting? The only question is whether Bridgewater challenges the team. This "report" is some passive-aggressive message from Bridgewater's agent that says, "We're waiting for a contract offer for 2018". He has not received an offer from the Vikings because Bridgewater is under contract to the Vikings for 2018 per terms of the CBA.
was he physically unable to perform? his playing status was as such, but was Teddy actually physically not able to play the game for those first 6 weeks? thats going to be the legal sticking point. legal verbiage much less vague than this has led to supreme court rulings. and I doubt that this will end up being only about Teddys situation. this could be a battle that sets the stage for the next CBA which they will likely start working on in about a year, neither side wants to lose these challenges now and go into the battle with a fresh scar on their resume.
Good points - IF Bridgewater challenges. But the Vikings made a determination he was unable to perform by putting him on the physically unable to perform list. They made a decision. Sure, Bridgewater could challenge, and he and his agent will consider all the things you listed. But some swing both ways - your comment about the CBA and how neither side wants to lose challenges. Maybe the NFLPA is discouraging Bridgewater because their leadership fears this case could be a loss. I don't know that - all we know is that Bridgewater has not filed a challenge.
I'm not trying to predict who would win that legal debate. My main point is that the Vikings or the league are not dragging their feet or punishing the Vikings. Their opinion is that his contract tolled as soon as week 6 passed and Bridgewater was still on PUP. Why would they schedule a hearing if they have not been challenged? That would be like me asking for a hearing because I noticed some guy slip on my front sidewalk last week and I think it's possible he might file a lawsuit. The ball is in Bridgewater's hands and if he believes he has a strong case and wants this settled before free agency starts, he should file a grievance, not leak opinions via sources close to his "camp".
I dont think it has been said one way or the other. Rick has admitted that their is a question on the matter since he said that it was up to the league to decide if he tolls or not. that is IMO the team saying they dont know and they dont want to be the ones to bring it up... well if Camp Teddy is the only one that is going to bring it up... they have to assume that they are in the clear to enter FA as neither the league or the team is challenging their interpretation of the wording. aside from really liking Teddy as a person, and thinking that he will perform at a high level, avoiding a major offseason drama like this has the potential to be is one big reason I want the team to just give him another chance to compete for the job, either against Case, Sam or a player to be named later, but get him under contract and avoid the locker room mess.
We're all predisposed by our hopes for the team and obviously we each have different ideas and hopes about each player. My own perspective is that Bridgewater's recovery, and how it interrupted his development, is highly uncertain until he has extended playing time, and makes any expectation he could start at the beginning of 2018 a terribly risky gamble. The best thing for the the Vikings would be to have another QB as starter and Bridgewater as his backup at a reasonable price. Obviously that might not be the best situation for Bridgewater personally.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
We're all predisposed by our hopes for the team and obviously we each have different ideas and hopes about each player. My own perspective is that Bridgewater's recovery, and how it interrupted his development, is highly uncertain until he has extended playing time, and makes any expectation he could start at the beginning of 2018 a terribly risky gamble. The best thing for the the Vikings would be to have another QB as starter and Bridgewater as his backup at a reasonable price. Obviously that might not be the best situation for Bridgewater personally.
and I have said all along.... only those on the inside really know what Teddy is ready for. if they go a different direction I will be fine with it because that tells me that all the positive reports were nothing more than fluff and window dressing. I think if Zim can get the Teddy back that he thought he had 2 years ago, he will be our starting QB next September. If Zim and Rick arent sold, then I sure as hell wont be either.
regardless of who they sign, I dont want the job handed to anybody, even if its cousins, I want a quality back up on the roster to push him and/or be ready to take the reins if our string of QB snake bites were to continue. one of the positives in not getting cousins would be being able to afford a more quality back up as well as adding better quality at other positions. if we have Cousins as QB1 for 30 a year, realistically how much more can we spend at the position?
but that horse's corpse cant take anymore abuse so IMO it will be what it will be and I will likely be fine with it.
I think it’s pretty clear that no one has ruled on it. That’s why the team has said they are
deferring to the league and Teddy’s camp is saying they don’t think it will be
an issue.
Isn’t there an official list of players who’s contracts have been
tolled? Shouldn’t their be a date when
this is released?
Quote: @medaille said:
I think it’s pretty clear that no one has ruled on it. That’s why the team has said they are
deferring to the league and Teddy’s camp is saying they don’t think it will be
an issue.
Isn’t there an official list of players who’s contracts have been
tolled? Shouldn’t their be a date when
this is released?
exaclty.... I dont know if this has been an issue to date and I am starting to get the feeling that the league, agents, teams and players really arent sure what the next step is. If this was a cut and dry deal it would be done by now, but obviously there is a shit ton of grey/gray area here.
Don't matter to me because I would still sign Cousins.
If Teddy's deal tolls it makes him more valuable in a trade!
I was poking into the CBA again trying to figure out if I missed something, and I realized that there's a whole different side to this issue - cutting a player who can't play because of injury costs money.
With Spielman talking things through early in the season with the nfl management council, and with Teddy coming back and getting into a game I think the Vikings have done everything they could to show that he's not unable to perform.
I'm not saying to read into this one way or the other, but it seems to me that Rick was being straightforward when he talked about MN not wanting to toll Teddy and that it's the NFL's decision.
The only way that anyone would have any confidence that it wouldn't toll is that the management council gave a list of steps to take and they all got taken.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
Of course they (Bridgewater's camp) don't think it will toll, as they don't want it to toll and they are going to fight it if it does. That doesn't mean it won't.
Exactly - this "report" is likely from Bridgewater's agent, making a story.
For everyone asking why this wasn't already resolved: when I read the CBA, I think this has been - in week 6 of the 2017 season and Bridgewater was on PUP:
Quote: a player on the final year of their rookie deal will have their
contract carry over to the following year if they are physically unable
to perform through Week 6. Bridgewater was on the Physically Unable to
Perform list through Week 6 this year
It's pretty clear - his contract already did toll. What needs to be decided? From the team's perspective, nothing. Default interpretation is that his contract tolls in 2018. What "decision" are we awaiting? The only question is whether Bridgewater challenges the team. This "report" is some passive-aggressive message from Bridgewater's agent that says, "We're waiting for a contract offer for 2018". He has not received an offer from the Vikings because Bridgewater is under contract to the Vikings for 2018 per terms of the CBA.
Yes, everything you're saying is true, but if you are familiar with the law, you're aware that attorneys can and often dispute the language in an official agreement down to what the definition of "IS" is, so I would not be so confident.
It's for this reason, and EVERYONE'S desire to avoid all that, I think the Vikings simply offer Teddy a reasonable short-term contract--one that allows them to sign another QB. T
he REAL question here is the timing. Do they do that BEFORE they approach Case, Kirk and/or Sam? What would the impact be on those negotiations if they feel the Vikings are attached to Teddy at the hip? Sam and Teddy are really the only option that allows you to keep two. And even that will be difficult. Every other option IMO requires you to commit to ONE. Case will not want to be here if we sign Teddy. And vice versa. No one will want to stay if we shoot the moon for Cousins. All of these guys will want--and an argument could be made that each deserves a shot at--a starting opportunity.
I base this on nothing, but my gut tells me the team really wants a long term solution here, and is trying to decide between Teddy and Kirk, while they flirt with the idea of tagging and trading Case, all the while hoping that no one offers Bradford a starting job.
But hey, no pressure, Rick. Nothing riding on this...
As you say, attorneys can dispute meanings etc. I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. So: why doesn't Bridgewater sue the Vikings and/or the NFL to get his status clarified? The delay does not hurt the team. Think about it: the uncertainty prevents other teams from wooing him when FA starts, and even before then it means they are cautious to make plans about Bridgewater. Also, when the Vikings have contract discussions with Keenum or Bradford, either will ask who else is going to be their competition - as you said, each wants the starting job. The tolling lets the Vikings honestly say, "We aren't talking about a contract for Bridgewater".
Seriously, tell me how this dragging out hurts the Vikings? It bothers fans who want resolution, and it could have demonstrable (in the hands of one of those good lawyers) harm to Bridgewater's negotiating with both the Vikings and other teams. Again: why doesn't Bridgewater file a grievance with the NFL and NFLPA demanding that his status be resolved, just like AJ McCarron did?
I think the Vikings are trying to keep Bridgewater in their pocket as an inexpensive backup to Cousins or Keenum.
Quote: @Jor-El said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Jor-El said:
@ StickyBun said:
Of course they (Bridgewater's camp) don't think it will toll, as they don't want it to toll and they are going to fight it if it does. That doesn't mean it won't.
Exactly - this "report" is likely from Bridgewater's agent, making a story.
For everyone asking why this wasn't already resolved: when I read the CBA, I think this has been - in week 6 of the 2017 season and Bridgewater was on PUP:
Quote: a player on the final year of their rookie deal will have their
contract carry over to the following year if they are physically unable
to perform through Week 6. Bridgewater was on the Physically Unable to
Perform list through Week 6 this year
It's pretty clear - his contract already did toll. What needs to be decided? From the team's perspective, nothing. Default interpretation is that his contract tolls in 2018. What "decision" are we awaiting? The only question is whether Bridgewater challenges the team. This "report" is some passive-aggressive message from Bridgewater's agent that says, "We're waiting for a contract offer for 2018". He has not received an offer from the Vikings because Bridgewater is under contract to the Vikings for 2018 per terms of the CBA.
Yes, everything you're saying is true, but if you are familiar with the law, you're aware that attorneys can and often dispute the language in an official agreement down to what the definition of "IS" is, so I would not be so confident.
It's for this reason, and EVERYONE'S desire to avoid all that, I think the Vikings simply offer Teddy a reasonable short-term contract--one that allows them to sign another QB. T
he REAL question here is the timing. Do they do that BEFORE they approach Case, Kirk and/or Sam? What would the impact be on those negotiations if they feel the Vikings are attached to Teddy at the hip? Sam and Teddy are really the only option that allows you to keep two. And even that will be difficult. Every other option IMO requires you to commit to ONE. Case will not want to be here if we sign Teddy. And vice versa. No one will want to stay if we shoot the moon for Cousins. All of these guys will want--and an argument could be made that each deserves a shot at--a starting opportunity.
I base this on nothing, but my gut tells me the team really wants a long term solution here, and is trying to decide between Teddy and Kirk, while they flirt with the idea of tagging and trading Case, all the while hoping that no one offers Bradford a starting job.
But hey, no pressure, Rick. Nothing riding on this...
As you say, attorneys can dispute meanings etc. I wouldn't dispute that for a moment. So: why doesn't Bridgewater sue the Vikings and/or the NFL to get his status clarified? The delay does not hurt the team. Think about it: the uncertainty prevents other teams from wooing him when FA starts, and even before then it means they are cautious to make plans about Bridgewater. Also, when the Vikings have contract discussions with Keenum or Bradford, either will ask who else is going to be their competition - as you said, each wants the starting job. The tolling lets the Vikings honestly say, "We aren't talking about a contract for Bridgewater".
Seriously, tell me how this dragging out hurts the Vikings? It bothers fans who want resolution, and it could have demonstrable (in the hands of one of those good lawyers) harm to Bridgewater's negotiating with both the Vikings and other teams. Again: why doesn't Bridgewater file a grievance with the NFL and NFLPA demanding that his status be resolved, just like AJ McCarron did?
I think the Vikings are trying to keep Bridgewater in their pocket as an inexpensive backup to Cousins or Keenum.
Team Teddy cant sue or what ever until there is a loss or some other type of contractual breech, since the league is in its limbo season... nothing said nothing to take the league task on. as of right now team Teddy has to think they are free agents in a couple weeks.
as far as how this hurts the Vikings, lets say they are in agreement with you and assume they will have Teddys rights and arent trying to extend him right now, well the league shuffles their feet a few weeks and it does end up going to court, now the Vikings dont know if they have Teddy for next year, FA is starting and they need to get to work and dont have all the necessary information. This is why I've said for weeks that the team needs to be proactive and either extend him, or let him know that he is a FA in their eyes and walk away. ( and maybe they have behind the scenes?)
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