Kipers new Mock

[Guest]

@Wetlander said:
@supafreak84

I don't know why you are against trading future picks for that QB.  There isn't a guarantee that they'll be studs or even starters. 

If we use your trade scenario from earlier where it's 11, 23, and our 2025 first to get to #3, what would that look like?  If we look back at our past two drafts, that would be Lewis Cine, Andrew Booth, and Jordan Addison not being on our team. Addison is the only good player, but I think we could live without those 3 if we hit on a franchise QB.

Or if we want to ignore Kwesi's dumb ass trade in 2022 and say we took Kyle Hamilton (All-Pro S), Ed Ingram, and Jordan Addison...  like I think we could still be a competitive team without having those guys, especially if we hit on that rookie QB.  Right?

Honestly, you should be praying we trade those picks so Kwesi doesn't have a chance to turn those picks into garbage.  Kevin is picking the QB so I'd trust him on that pick more than letting Kwesi cook on any non-QB picks.

My thing has always been the risk in moving up to take a quarterback, where we all know the bust rate is high, and compounding that by sabotaging next year's draft as well where we could realistically be looking at a top pick. You are doubling down on fuck up potential. Unfortunately due to the competitive rebuild strategy, we aren't left with many options. Look no further then San Francisco, who gave up all those picks to move up in a similar trade up for Trey Lance. KOC picking the quarterback also doesn't make me feel any more optimistic when Kyle Shanahan is an offensive guru himself and still got fooled by Lance. It can happen to anybody. 

We'll see, I just want this done already and the paralysis by analysis to be over

[Guest]

@MaroonBells said:

@pattersaur said:

@StickyBun said:

@supafreak84 said:

@StickyBun said:

I just think you have to be careful how you allocate that draft haul in a trade. Ask the Panthers, who also thought it was dramatic to think they'd be drafting in the top 5 again in 2024.  It happens, especially with a rookie QB. You give up that haul, you essentially are going to have a one player draft the next two seasons. If that player turns out to be Andrew Luck, great, if not....you are in deep deep doodoo. 

Panther's and Viking's rosters are two very different things. And we aren't starting a rookie QB....guaranteed that isn't KOC's plan. Would a highly drafted rookie start a few games at the end of the year if Minnesota isn't in sniffing range of the playoffs? Sure. Just wondering how you'd feel to watch JJ light it up for another team and do what he does and then see the rookie QB tank? Its just not going to happen, trading JJ. And it shouldn't. Its much better to trade up using draft picks. 

So you think starting Darnold all year would save us from a top 5 pick? Riiiight. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. 

The Vikings have spent a bunch of money on defensive free agents, they have Jones, JJ, Addison, Hock, 2 excellent OTs and Darnold won 7 games starting 13 games in 2019 with a garbage NY Jets team. He can't win 6 games this year in Minnesota? Please.

Who knows what will happen, of course. What I DO know isn't going to happen is trade the 24 year old best WRer in the NFL to move up for an unknown rookie QB. 

Annnnnd you consider the defense to be upgraded from the personnel we lost? Where specifically have we upgraded? To me you have a bunch of lateral type moves, that while it makes us younger, we aren't necessarily better. 

Who knows when Hockenson is coming back. Might be mid-season or later. 

Right now we are squarely team 4 in the division. If you can't see that and think Darnold, who has proven only one thing and that's that he throws a shit ton of INT's, is going to lead us to wins...than I couldn't disagree more. That pick in 2025 could easily be a top 5 to 10 pick. We miss on QB and strip us of our next two drafts compounded with the disaster that was the 2022 draft, this team is going to be hurting and it really won't matter if we have the best receiver in the NFL. 

Dude, you've been complaining about this team non-stop. You and CFIA must be overeaters.....because you guys endlessly shit on everything. 

You said a Top 5 pick....now you are backtracking and saying Top 10. I just started a thread yesterday saying we need to hit on a rookie QB to keep up with the NFCN, so don't paint me pollyanna. If you can't see that trading JJ to get up to the #2 or #3 rated QB is foolish, not sure what to tell you. 

Lol settle down dude (and you never answered my question about upgrades). You and Maroon are the same fluffers last season pumping Kwesi on Josh Oliver, any Rams cast-off, Davenport, etc. So I'm just calling it like I see it. If there's something to get excited about, let me know...

And I don't care if it's a top 5 pick or top 10 pick. I would not be a fan of giving away either while scrambling to move up for a QB and perhaps we should consider alternate methods of taking that swing, including the trading of our star receiver and his strange contract situation. Not likely to happen, but we need a QB and all options should be considered after Kirk left. 

Yes, oh so wise. Thanks for that keen revisionist history, lol. Always so interesting how you leave out all the injuries, including the starting QB. And still almost made the playoffs.

Keep the wisdom flowing, Yoda! 

In fairness to Supa I think you and Maroon were pretty confident we'd be good last year, were pretty confident in Mattison (sup Jimmy!) and pretty confident we'd re-sign Kirk.
I've been wrong about a million things over the years-- I wanted Manziel, I was smitten with Dobbs lol-- it's all fun. Razzing each other on it is what we're all here for. And for that glorious day when the Vikings are kings of the league, of course.

LOL. We were good last year. Kirk stays healthy, this team competes with the Lions and the 49ers for the conference. Does everyone just conveniently forget that we lost our starting QB after beating the 49ers and Packers and were forced to start three different QBs? And STILL were in playoff contention up until the final week. 

As far as Mattison goes, I thought moving on from Dalvin was the right thing to do and going to a committee with Mattison and Chandler could be competent. I've been saying for two years that Chandler was our best back. I did not think Mattison would be our de facto RB1 like he was for most of the season. 

I was obviously wrong about Asamoah. He appears to be an ill-fit with Flores. Or he might just be an idiot. But what I was most wrong about were when I UNDER-estimated this team. I was hoping Bflo would improve our defense from 31 to roughly 18 to 22. I was not expecting the level of improvement we saw. I also thought Addison would give us about 5 TDs. He doubled that. 

But you're right, I did say crazy-optimistic things like Ingram would improve his 2nd season and our line would benefit from the continuity of having all five return for the first time in a decade and that Hunter would have a career year in a contract season. Goggles I guess. I did think we'd resign Cousins...until Atlanta emerged. 

Here's my prediction for '24. Sam Darnold will have his best season as a pro and we will not be picking in the top 10 in '25. If Sam's our QB all year I see a .500 team. If we hit on a franchise QB in the draft, we fight with the Lions and the Packers for the division. 

Pocket aces look great til you get sniped on the river! Doesn't change the final pot. But I didn't mean to say ha ha you guys are wrong so I do apologize. Love everyone here's takes. Re-reading my post I can see how that came off. My bad. My point was more that all of us are right to some degree and wrong on others. We're just fans. I still say we misused Cordarrelle Patterson and he could've gone down as a beloved Viking though, if things worked out differently!

But that's beside the point. I totally agree with your take in the bold. I think Darnold will play well but I also think his ceiling is capped. I think a rookie QB offers a wildcard/uncapped ceiling which is why I'm all for paying what it takes to get the guy they like-- Maye or otherwise.