Quote: @supafreak84 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
The early off-season will probably change my answer. Depth wise they are a fairly complete team, but they are lacking the high upside plays needed from their high price starters.
But if I had to list my top 3 needs as of today it would be: Slot CB, Some added layer to the pass rush (could be a hybrid ILB, otherwise a better penetrating base end), then WR2 in that order.
I would think you'd pencil Booth in our slot CB next season with Dantzler and Evans on the outside. That would of course be contingent on your confidence level in that group staying healthy, but we've certainly spent the draft capital at that position once again. I'd be surprised if Peterson is back on another short deal with our salary cap issues.
I would say interior defensive line would far and away be our biggest need, regardless of if we stay with the 3-4 or switch it back to a 4-3. Throw in Tomlinson hitting free agency and that position becomes potentially even more dire.
1. Interior DL
2. WR
3. QBOTF
IDL would be top of my list too
Might be tempted for a WR if the right one fell that far
I am not convinced Dantzler is starting material or that P2 is coming back - that could bump db way up on the list
Yah, they gotta have an eye out for QBOTF too
FA this off-season should be very interesting and it aint that far away
My list would go as follows, in no particular order:
- Slot CB: I'd give Duke first dibs, but definitely need some depth there. Team might use 3 safety looks with Cine coming back as well.
- WR: I doubt AT comes back, especially at his cap hit. Need to find JJ & KJO a running mate for the long haul.
- ILB: I'm gonna bet that one or both of EK & Hicks are gone after this season. If so this becomes a position of need, big-time. I'd argue even with both on the roster we need some new blood there to go along with Asamoah. Some good prospects should be on the board around where we pick.
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
The early off-season will probably change my answer. Depth wise they are a fairly complete team, but they are lacking the high upside plays needed from their high price starters.
But if I had to list my top 3 needs as of today it would be: Slot CB, Some added layer to the pass rush (could be a hybrid ILB, otherwise a better penetrating base end), then WR2 in that order.
Maybe add ILB as well. EK & Hicks are on their last legs and I don't trust Dye yet in a full-time role if something were to happen to those two.
and maybe OLB, Smith ended up dinged most of the season and Hunter has really shown to be a much better 4-3 guy than a stand up OLB.
The whole idea that Hunter is a much better 4-3 guys is a myth. He finished the year 6th is total EDGE pressures (which is the most consistent year over year), 10th in sacks, 3rd in QB hurries, 3rd in tackles, and 5th in defensive starts. He got off to a low start and the teams pass rush as a whole struggled so he's moved into the underrated category. Over the past 4-5 weeks he's looked the part as well.
As for the ILB need, one of Kendricks/Hicks will be gone and Asamoah will get a starting spot. He deserves it too. But its still a need from the standpoint of finding another player who excels in space over the middle.
Agree on Hunter. Regarding ILB, I sorta wonder if both Kendricks and Hicks could be gone. it's not a premium position, but it's very possible the best ILBs in the draft will be on the board when the Vikings select.
Obviously, we have to see what happens with Donatell. If he goes, does the new DC bring back the 4-3? If so, that changes everything.
Asamoah will end up being a starter next year both because he has earned it and it saves them quite a bit of money. So that immediately removes one of Kendricks/Hicks from the equation. I could definitely foresee a world where both are gone, but Hicks' contract is rather decent. You could end up cutting both and save $14.5M on the cap.
Donatell will likely be back. Would say 80% chance if not higher. But if they did move away from him typically the HC decides on the scheme and then the coordinator is brought in to play into it. So KOC is likely more likely the decision maker on moving to the 3-4. Albeit he could always change back knowing they are hiring a new DC if they go that route.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
@ PurpleCrush said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ supafreak84 said:
I still go back to the fact that we had Williams, Davis, and Kyle Hamilton all fall into our laps for the taking and we traded all the way down for terrible value to select a non-impact player who was running 4th on the depth chart before his catastrophic injury. Getting little to no return from this draft class has hurt this team down the stretch. People can stroke Kwesi all they want, but the fact is outside of adding Zadarius in free agency after he spurned the Ravens and trading for Hockenson mid season, he has done NOTHING in the way of adding impact and/or depth to this roster. Hicks and Phillips have made little impact on a defense that currently ranks 31st in total defense.
Kwesi has a lot to prove this offseason
Value aside since we didn't get market for the trade down I don't agree.
Jameson Williams would have been a fine pick and the Vikings liked him. He doesn't help you early in the season due to his injury which goes against what they were attempting to do this off-season. They would have taken Olave or Wilson if they had made it to their pick. Just didn't happen. Davis didn't have value to them and Tonga has been equally impressive off waivers. Kyle Hamilton didn't fit the defensive systems they wanted to play. You could argue with a scheme change if that answer changes. But you only know what you know.
Cine was a fine pick and still believe he'll play a big role moving forward. He didn't play early on but as a prospect, I personally was a big fan. The goal was to build a fast and physical backbone which then played into the Asamoah pick, who will be a starter next year. Akayleb Evans will at worst be a 4 year depth CB and Ingram is serviceable with some level of upside. Later on they picked up Otomewo, Chandler, and Nailor who are depth.
Not saying Kwesi won the draft, but it was far from a burning fire.
There was an article the other day about how the OC in Detroit hoped that Williams would pick things up faster than he has. He's been healthy for 5 games and he has one catch. Yeah, that one.
Now, this doesn't mean anything. Like I said before the draft, it's going to be some time before he starts making an impact. Even after he's 100% healthy, there's a period of confidence building.
What I don't understand is why so many thought he was a can't miss prospect. The speed is REAL, but there was some downside there that not many wanted to acknowledge.
Read another article about a month ago calling Jordan Davis an "afterthought." So many of the guys promoted by VikingNation aren't really setting the world on fire.
You know who's been amazing? That kid with the short arms.
Agree on Williams. When it comes to McDuffie, nothing has really changed since draft day. He was a great target for the Vikings if they could have traded down a few slots, not all the way back to pick #32. Considering his ability to play the slot and the results they've gotten from Chandon Sullivan it would have been a valuable choice. Maybe we should apply for a joint GM position? In one of my later mocks I had taken McDuffie in a slight trade down, then picked up a 3rd to add Kirby Joseph who is going to end up being a long-term starter for Detroit.
A McDuffie/Joseph combo would've been great. Infinitely better than what we got from Cine and Booth (so far).
The real sleeper from this draft was Tariq Woolen. Seattle got him in the 5th round and he's been terrific. I wasn't especially high on him, but I know this board had some discussion about him.
I know free agency will have a lot to say about what direction we go in, but curious what you think our biggest need is.
The early off-season will probably change my answer. Depth wise they are a fairly complete team, but they are lacking the high upside plays needed from their high price starters.
But if I had to list my top 3 needs as of today it would be: Slot CB, Some added layer to the pass rush (could be a hybrid ILB, otherwise a better penetrating base end), then WR2 in that order.
Maybe add ILB as well. EK & Hicks are on their last legs and I don't trust Dye yet in a full-time role if something were to happen to those two.
and maybe OLB, Smith ended up dinged most of the season and Hunter has really shown to be a much better 4-3 guy than a stand up OLB.
The whole idea that Hunter is a much better 4-3 guys is a myth. He finished the year 6th is total EDGE pressures (which is the most consistent year over year), 10th in sacks, 3rd in QB hurries, 3rd in tackles, and 5th in defensive starts. He got off to a low start and the teams pass rush as a whole struggled so he's moved into the underrated category. Over the past 4-5 weeks he's looked the part as well.
As for the ILB need, one of Kendricks/Hicks will be gone and Asamoah will get a starting spot. He deserves it too. But its still a need from the standpoint of finding another player who excels in space over the middle.
Agree on Hunter. Regarding ILB, I sorta wonder if both Kendricks and Hicks could be gone. it's not a premium position, but it's very possible the best ILBs in the draft will be on the board when the Vikings select.
Obviously, we have to see what happens with Donatell. If he goes, does the new DC bring back the 4-3? If so, that changes everything.
Asamoah will end up being a starter next year both because he has earned it and it saves them quite a bit of money. So that immediately removes one of Kendricks/Hicks from the equation. I could definitely foresee a world where both are gone, but Hicks' contract is rather decent. You could end up cutting both and save $14.5M on the cap.
Donatell will likely be back. Would say 80% chance if not higher. But if they did move away from him typically the HC decides on the scheme and then the coordinator is brought in to play into it. So KOC is likely more likely the decision maker on moving to the 3-4. Albeit he could always change back knowing they are hiring a new DC if they go that route.
The playoffs might have some impact on the Donatell decision, but right now I hope you're wrong. Love Asamoah. I think not only is he going to be a starter, but I think he could be a star.
I agree the playoffs and how the team performs will have a lot to do with the future of some players and assistants on this team. With that said, Donatell has to go! We are 31st in total defense, we have given up more total passing yards than any team in the league besides the Titans. We went a month giving up 400+ yards a game. This is a historically bad defense for this franchise and his lousy, soft shell, 3-4 scheme have been a huge part in that because we have prior Pro Bowl players at every level of this defense. Do we need to upgrade pieces? Yes we do, but that doesn't change the fact that Donatell was a bad hire and a big part of our defensive issues this year.
Let me give you a couple potential replacements; Gus Bradley in Indy or Dennis Allen if the Saints make a change. Let's get back to 4-3 football, scrap the 3-4 fluff, and start beating teams down again.
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