Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Kentis said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings gave assurances to Kirk's camp at the combine that they wouldn't trade him. So he's not going anywhere.
So Cousins stays & we’re going after veteran IL, where’s the cap relief coming from Geoff…???
Contract extensions provide cap relief. If the Vikings aren't going to trade Cousins, they almost have to extend him. Rodgers just signed a $200M deal with $153M guaranteed....and his 22 cap number goes down.
Also a LOT of money to pulled from the contracts of Hunter, Thielen, Harry, etc.
I doubt they extend him, at least not now. But they'll move $12-20M onto future caps. Which will get them back under the cap with Kirk's contract alone. Then they'll work on the others. Thielen will need to take a pay-cut or he's going to get outright released. Pierce likely will be gone which opens up another $6M or so. With those two moves they'll get about $10M under and then they'll manipulate Barr's dead money to get that closer to $15M. I'm not sure they want to move much money around on other veterans. They could though.
With Kirk off the 2023 cap (for now) and Pierce's $10+M off only having $15M or so to spend this off-season should work since they can keep the 2022 cap hits low.
I could be misinterpreting your comment but it reads to me that you think they will add void years to Cousins deal move 12-20M to future years. Is that right?
If so, they need Cousins permission to add void years. You think he and his agent will do that knowing the team does not want to offer an extension?
Why would they do that? If something happens to him he likely does not get another deal besides a Fitzpatrick level deal. Even if nothing happens, do you think he will get a large contract from some team after the 2022 season?
Considering they did not allow void years in this current contract, I have doubts about them adding them in now.
Why would any player not add void years? Its basic finance of money now > money later. They'll write him a $12-15M check next week vs. waiting to play the games next season. It has no implication on any future deal in MN or elsewhere.
The point is that they did not allow any void years in the last extension. Doing so now allows the Vikings to keep him for one more year without committing long term now.
I believe the contract was written without void years on purpose. I believe Cousins and his agent knew that the Vikings would not want to absorb a 45M cap hit and thus, would have to make an additional commitment. Having void years gives the team a pause and let's the Vikings have his services for one more year without a longer commitment.
He is getting the 35M no matter what so giving him a check in March instead of over 17 weeks later in the year is no big deal. That argument is not very persuasive especially for a dude that already has pulled in 161.6M for his career.
If the team wants to add void years, Cousins must give them permission. This is a fact.
I have doubts but could be wrong.
why would the team have to have a players permission to add void years? that seems stupid to me. what does a player care if a teams cap gets fucked after they are gone, as long as they are the one taking that money with them.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Kentis said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings gave assurances to Kirk's camp at the combine that they wouldn't trade him. So he's not going anywhere.
So Cousins stays & we’re going after veteran IL, where’s the cap relief coming from Geoff…???
Contract extensions provide cap relief. If the Vikings aren't going to trade Cousins, they almost have to extend him. Rodgers just signed a $200M deal with $153M guaranteed....and his 22 cap number goes down.
Also a LOT of money to pulled from the contracts of Hunter, Thielen, Harry, etc.
I doubt they extend him, at least not now. But they'll move $12-20M onto future caps. Which will get them back under the cap with Kirk's contract alone. Then they'll work on the others. Thielen will need to take a pay-cut or he's going to get outright released. Pierce likely will be gone which opens up another $6M or so. With those two moves they'll get about $10M under and then they'll manipulate Barr's dead money to get that closer to $15M. I'm not sure they want to move much money around on other veterans. They could though.
With Kirk off the 2023 cap (for now) and Pierce's $10+M off only having $15M or so to spend this off-season should work since they can keep the 2022 cap hits low.
I could be misinterpreting your comment but it reads to me that you think they will add void years to Cousins deal move 12-20M to future years. Is that right?
If so, they need Cousins permission to add void years. You think he and his agent will do that knowing the team does not want to offer an extension?
Why would they do that? If something happens to him he likely does not get another deal besides a Fitzpatrick level deal. Even if nothing happens, do you think he will get a large contract from some team after the 2022 season?
Considering they did not allow void years in this current contract, I have doubts about them adding them in now.
Why would any player not add void years? Its basic finance of money now > money later. They'll write him a $12-15M check next week vs. waiting to play the games next season. It has no implication on any future deal in MN or elsewhere.
The point is that they did not allow any void years in the last extension. Doing so now allows the Vikings to keep him for one more year without committing long term now.
I believe the contract was written without void years on purpose. I believe Cousins and his agent knew that the Vikings would not want to absorb a 45M cap hit and thus, would have to make an additional commitment. Having void years gives the team a pause and let's the Vikings have his services for one more year without a longer commitment.
He is getting the 35M no matter what so giving him a check in March instead of over 17 weeks later in the year is no big deal. That argument is not very persuasive especially for a dude that already has pulled in 161.6M for his career.
If the team wants to add void years, Cousins must give them permission. This is a fact.
I have doubts but could be wrong.
They do need permission to add the void years, you have that right. I would also agree that it is a point of leverage, But the reasoning for not wanting to add the void years doesn't make sense to me. The void years are for cap proration only, he still receives his $35M cash this year ($10M was at the time of signing). Kirk also would get the money sooner and it assures him there won't be a trade since the dead money would only increase for the Vikings. I also don't think it precludes him from signing an extension at all. Play that out:
- Scenario 1: Kirk uses it as a point of leverage. The $45M cap hit isn't going to increase the Vikings urgency to over-pay on an extension since it would only mitigate how much his cap hit could drop for the 2022 season. Even outside the $45M hit they can have conversations around a "fair" contract extension.
- Scenario 2: Kirk adds the void years. He still gets all of his money and cements himself on the Vikings 2022 roster. His leverage is the fact the Vikings don't have a QB of the future and he can walk himself into FA with no ability to be tagged. So he still holds all the cards over what extension he would sign and maximizes the talent around him next season.
The scenario's end with 2 options, he gets and extension or doesn't. In the case he does get extended the void years aren't going to run up the total. In the case he doesn't he is going to FA anyways. I get your point and don't 100% disagree. I just think it would work out a little differently.
Quote: @"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Kentis said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings gave assurances to Kirk's camp at the combine that they wouldn't trade him. So he's not going anywhere.
So Cousins stays & we’re going after veteran IL, where’s the cap relief coming from Geoff…???
Contract extensions provide cap relief. If the Vikings aren't going to trade Cousins, they almost have to extend him. Rodgers just signed a $200M deal with $153M guaranteed....and his 22 cap number goes down.
Also a LOT of money to pulled from the contracts of Hunter, Thielen, Harry, etc.
I doubt they extend him, at least not now. But they'll move $12-20M onto future caps. Which will get them back under the cap with Kirk's contract alone. Then they'll work on the others. Thielen will need to take a pay-cut or he's going to get outright released. Pierce likely will be gone which opens up another $6M or so. With those two moves they'll get about $10M under and then they'll manipulate Barr's dead money to get that closer to $15M. I'm not sure they want to move much money around on other veterans. They could though.
With Kirk off the 2023 cap (for now) and Pierce's $10+M off only having $15M or so to spend this off-season should work since they can keep the 2022 cap hits low.
I could be misinterpreting your comment but it reads to me that you think they will add void years to Cousins deal move 12-20M to future years. Is that right?
If so, they need Cousins permission to add void years. You think he and his agent will do that knowing the team does not want to offer an extension?
Why would they do that? If something happens to him he likely does not get another deal besides a Fitzpatrick level deal. Even if nothing happens, do you think he will get a large contract from some team after the 2022 season?
Considering they did not allow void years in this current contract, I have doubts about them adding them in now.
Why would any player not add void years? Its basic finance of money now > money later. They'll write him a $12-15M check next week vs. waiting to play the games next season. It has no implication on any future deal in MN or elsewhere.
The point is that they did not allow any void years in the last extension. Doing so now allows the Vikings to keep him for one more year without committing long term now.
I believe the contract was written without void years on purpose. I believe Cousins and his agent knew that the Vikings would not want to absorb a 45M cap hit and thus, would have to make an additional commitment. Having void years gives the team a pause and let's the Vikings have his services for one more year without a longer commitment.
He is getting the 35M no matter what so giving him a check in March instead of over 17 weeks later in the year is no big deal. That argument is not very persuasive especially for a dude that already has pulled in 161.6M for his career.
If the team wants to add void years, Cousins must give them permission. This is a fact.
I have doubts but could be wrong.
They do need permission to add the void years, you have that right. I would also agree that it is a point of leverage, But the reasoning for not wanting to add the void years doesn't make sense to me. The void years are for cap proration only, he still receives his $35M cash this year ($10M was at the time of signing). Kirk also would get the money sooner and it assures him there won't be a trade since the dead money would only increase for the Vikings. I also don't think it precludes him from signing an extension at all. Play that out:
- Scenario 1: Kirk uses it as a point of leverage. The $45M cap hit isn't going to increase the Vikings urgency to over-pay on an extension since it would only mitigate how much his cap hit could drop for the 2022 season. Even outside the $45M hit they can have conversations around a "fair" contract extension.
- Scenario 2: Kirk adds the void years. He still gets all of his money and cements himself on the Vikings 2022 roster. His leverage is the fact the Vikings don't have a QB of the future and he can walk himself into FA with no ability to be tagged. So he still holds all the cards over what extension he would sign and maximizes the talent around him next season.
The scenario's end with 2 options, he gets and extension or doesn't. In the case he does get extended the void years aren't going to run up the total. In the case he doesn't he is going to FA anyways. I get your point and don't 100% disagree. I just think it would work out a little differently.
Sounds like to me that you think his value will be about the same next offseason. I have doubts and there is injury risk too.
I think the early check and extra dead money if the Vikings trade him is true but many folks believe the Vikings would have to eat more salary in a trade anyway.
Maybe not to the Colts but if he is not going to extend with the new team then the Vikings may have to pay 10M more to move him.
Quote: @MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MarkSP18 said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ Kentis said:
@"Geoff Nichols" said:
The Vikings gave assurances to Kirk's camp at the combine that they wouldn't trade him. So he's not going anywhere.
So Cousins stays & we’re going after veteran IL, where’s the cap relief coming from Geoff…???
Contract extensions provide cap relief. If the Vikings aren't going to trade Cousins, they almost have to extend him. Rodgers just signed a $200M deal with $153M guaranteed....and his 22 cap number goes down.
Also a LOT of money to pulled from the contracts of Hunter, Thielen, Harry, etc.
I doubt they extend him, at least not now. But they'll move $12-20M onto future caps. Which will get them back under the cap with Kirk's contract alone. Then they'll work on the others. Thielen will need to take a pay-cut or he's going to get outright released. Pierce likely will be gone which opens up another $6M or so. With those two moves they'll get about $10M under and then they'll manipulate Barr's dead money to get that closer to $15M. I'm not sure they want to move much money around on other veterans. They could though.
With Kirk off the 2023 cap (for now) and Pierce's $10+M off only having $15M or so to spend this off-season should work since they can keep the 2022 cap hits low.
I could be misinterpreting your comment but it reads to me that you think they will add void years to Cousins deal move 12-20M to future years. Is that right?
If so, they need Cousins permission to add void years. You think he and his agent will do that knowing the team does not want to offer an extension?
Why would they do that? If something happens to him he likely does not get another deal besides a Fitzpatrick level deal. Even if nothing happens, do you think he will get a large contract from some team after the 2022 season?
Considering they did not allow void years in this current contract, I have doubts about them adding them in now.
Why would any player not add void years? Its basic finance of money now > money later. They'll write him a $12-15M check next week vs. waiting to play the games next season. It has no implication on any future deal in MN or elsewhere.
The point is that they did not allow any void years in the last extension. Doing so now allows the Vikings to keep him for one more year without committing long term now.
I believe the contract was written without void years on purpose. I believe Cousins and his agent knew that the Vikings would not want to absorb a 45M cap hit and thus, would have to make an additional commitment. Having void years gives the team a pause and let's the Vikings have his services for one more year without a longer commitment.
He is getting the 35M no matter what so giving him a check in March instead of over 17 weeks later in the year is no big deal. That argument is not very persuasive especially for a dude that already has pulled in 161.6M for his career.
If the team wants to add void years, Cousins must give them permission. This is a fact.
I have doubts but could be wrong.
They do need permission to add the void years, you have that right. I would also agree that it is a point of leverage, But the reasoning for not wanting to add the void years doesn't make sense to me. The void years are for cap proration only, he still receives his $35M cash this year ($10M was at the time of signing). Kirk also would get the money sooner and it assures him there won't be a trade since the dead money would only increase for the Vikings. I also don't think it precludes him from signing an extension at all. Play that out:
- Scenario 1: Kirk uses it as a point of leverage. The $45M cap hit isn't going to increase the Vikings urgency to over-pay on an extension since it would only mitigate how much his cap hit could drop for the 2022 season. Even outside the $45M hit they can have conversations around a "fair" contract extension.
- Scenario 2: Kirk adds the void years. He still gets all of his money and cements himself on the Vikings 2022 roster. His leverage is the fact the Vikings don't have a QB of the future and he can walk himself into FA with no ability to be tagged. So he still holds all the cards over what extension he would sign and maximizes the talent around him next season.
The scenario's end with 2 options, he gets and extension or doesn't. In the case he does get extended the void years aren't going to run up the total. In the case he doesn't he is going to FA anyways. I get your point and don't 100% disagree. I just think it would work out a little differently.
Sounds like to me that you think his value will be about the same next offseason. I have doubts and there is injury risk too.
I think the early check and extra dead money if the Vikings trade him is true but many folks believe the Vikings would have to eat more salary in a trade anyway.
Maybe not to the Colts but if he is not going to extend with the new team then the Vikings may have to pay 10M more to move him.
IF the vikings move cousins and they agree to eat part of his salary for this year, it wont be to actually get some team to take him, it will be to improve the compensation. basically they would be buying a draft pick by agreeing to pay part of his deal. kirk is a bit of an ugly kid, but you dont actually have to hang a pork chop around his neck.
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