Quote: @ThunderGod said:
Do we have an OL coaching problem or a OL talent problem?
https://heavy.com/sports/minnesota-vikings/analyst-rips-garrett-bradbury-nfl-draft/?fbclid=IwAR0rDcu7O-LJss7SOn3gmwaMkrzhVF_VvjZB6084YyPV_kAMef0WLjkJ-js
It's all of the above, and more.
From the article, " finished in the bottom six teams in pass-blocking five of the past seven seasons".
Scheme is part of it. Drafting undersized linemen who can move well and run block in an outside zone offense is great as long as you can run. But once they get behind and have to pass, those undersized linemen become a liability. They don't have the strength needed and too often get driven straight back into the QB.
But even before the current running scheme, the Vikings draft picks on the O-line seemed to lack functional strength.
Coaching. I watched the championship games this weekend, and all 4 O-lines looked different than the Vikings with regard to strength and technique. As much as I dislike Green Bay, I admire how they can consistently pass protect. Yes, they hold. They are damn good at it. The Vikings should hire their line coach.
The Vikings have had several line coaches over the years but seem to rarely develop the O-line prospects selected.
Drafting. The GM seems unable to recognize O-line talent! Way too many misses. There have been several coaches and schemes the last several years, but the same GM.
The QB. Cousins has a lot of positive traits. Great accuracy and arm talent. He is especially good with play action passing. But when the run game sputters and he has to pass, he doesn't stand a chance. He is not very good at escaping pressure and doesn't do well off script. He also holds the ball at times and is slow to throw it away. He simply has to have great pass protection to succeed. He has a sieve. Case Keenum had a sieve but also had houdini like ability to escape. Brady can't escape pressure either, but doesn't hold the ball.
Cousins was a poor choice for the Vikings, not because of Cousins, but because of the O-line.
Zimmer. A coach who has a concept that the players need to adapt to his system and hope they have the talent to do it, rather than recognizing the talents the players have and adapting the system to the players and taking advantage of their individual strengths.
Owners/front office. They have painted themselves into a financial corner that cost them their defense and handcuffed them when trying to improve in free agency. They need help on defense which makes it hard to improve the O-line.
I know I will get a lot of flack for this but it's just they way I see it.
^^^^ No flak, well written opinion
We tell our kids to hold on every play. get inside the pads and leverage those pads so that the opponents spine is straight...BUT....keep your pads parallel to your opposition, and thats the key to success, because on the D-line, we coach up our player to “fight half of the man”.
O line needs to be nimble of feet out of the snap in order to square up. If they strike, square up, and leverage...the O line will win. If the D-line “get’s half the man”...they will win. (most of the time....theres a whole other argument in hand fighting / what we call “re-fit”
Quote: @Vanguard83 said:
^^^^ No flak, well written opinion
We tell our kids to hold on every play. get inside the pads and leverage those pads so that the opponents spine is straight...BUT....keep your pads parallel to your opposition, and thats the key to success, because on the D-line, we coach up our player to “fight half of the man”.
O line needs to be nimble of feet out of the snap in order to square up. If they strike, square up, and leverage...the O line will win. If the D-line “get’s half the man”...they will win. (most of the time....theres a whole other argument in hand fighting / what we call “re-fit”
Which again brings up the question is it coaching/technique that makes the Vikings offensive lines so bad.
The truth is, I haven't seen much for Oline development since Tice was under Green, and even a few years he was the head guy. I always think of how they developed the David Dixons, Jeff Christys, and Chris Liewinskis of the world, hell even Matt Birk was not a premium pick by any means.
Quote: @kmillard said:
The truth is, I haven't seen much for Oline development since Tice was under Green, and even a few years he was the head guy. I always think of how they developed the David Dixons, Jeff Christys, and Chris Liewinskis of the world, hell even Matt Birk was not a premium pick by any means.
But he went to Harvard...
Vikings are out of sync. They want to run the ball and play defense. Can't do that when half your defense is on IR. Because of that, they have to pass more. And while the OL run blocks very well, because they're a smaller, more athletic wide zone line, they don't hold up as well in pass pro. Which is fine...IF you had a mobile QB or a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly. Kirk is neither.
Bradbury will be fine. This is not Elflein. You watch Bradbury and he flashes greatness. Elflein never did. Bradbury started poorly in '19, then steadily improved. This year he started great, scoring above 80 in pass blocking a couple of times, but then had a handful of games where he got his ass kicked. I suspect this is a film tell, where he's doing something that some DTs see on film and take advantage of. Because when he's not getting his ass kicked, he actually looks damn good. And he would look even better with a couple of league average guards next to him.
Vikings will always want to draft athletic blockers, but they might want to adjust their dial on the "athleticism-----power" scale a little more toward power.
Quote: @medaille said:
@ Zanary said:
One reason I find the Cousins haters to be so bizarre is that they'll manage to look right past what was accomplished despite horrible line and defensive plays, and be immediately drooling for ANY other QB...despite Kirk likely finishing his Vikings career as our top-rated QB...ever.
I'll never call him perfect, and he obviously doesn't have the charisma that ol' Burt Favor did...but he can hit incredible passes regularly, is more mobile now, and can be lethal if given time. I think he could be a very good, important part of a great Vikings team if the known issues are addressed.
Sadly, the biggest is coaching. Zimmer has to let the offense get a dominant lead before going into clock-management mode. Needing the offense to come back from double-digit deficits constantly was ridiculous.
I think you are creating a strawman “Cousins Haters”. Very few people are completely ignoring the
OLine or Defense, and extremely few people are DROOLING over ANY
other qb.
My take is that Cousins is just not good enough to get us to
the SB unless the team is perfect around him.
I don’t think he’ll win enough games to get us a bye in the
playoffs. I don’t think he’ll be able to
beat 3-4 playoff caliber teams in a row.
I don’t think he’s bad, but you really need an elite QB to win a SB or
get extremely lucky. I think you need to
be always working to get an elite QB, because a good but not elite QB is not
good enough. I also think that if you’re
going to have a not good enough QB, I’d rather pay a lot less and try to
improve the team around them while finding that elite QB.
I disagree with what I'm "creating", because of the sheer number of posts by "fans" all over social media that will insist he's no better than average, he can't win a game, he can't see past his first read, etc etc etc. The babble is thick out there, though there has been a recent growth in other that post proof to the contrary.
They'll be in full-on swoons over the latest young scamperer, but ignore the very things they hate in Cousins. Kirk was on a team that won almost twice the games Watson did this season, but suddenly...wins don't matter...oh, except Kirk's.
It's all over, every day, and completely stupid. The concept that allowing a crap OL/defense 1is made possible with a mobile QB is kinda beaten down when you remember just how many rings Russell Wilson has since the "Legion" left Seattle.
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