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+--- Thread: What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? (/showthread.php?tid=449)
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-19-2017
Quote: @Wetlander said:I totally agree with this.
I was the first to say if Thielen was on the Patriots, he'd be a 90+ catch a season guy before his breakout year. He runs routes good, plays hard, and can make tough catches. Severely underrated athlete with good size. However, if we transition back to a more balanced offense like we were in 2015... I think last season might be his "best" statistical season. In that type of offense that has pass/run splits close to 50-50... he'll probably get 50-60 receptions... around 800 yards... and 4-6 TDs a season. Good production, but not great. If he were in a more pass heavy offense, I think he could easily be a 1,000 yard WR that is viewed as a good #2 option in a passing attack.
As far as Diggs... I would agree with MaroonBells assessment. Antonio Brown-like talent where he will beat press coverage with quick footwork at the line since he won't be muscling through CBs who can get their hands on him. Elite quickness and dangerous RAC ability. Huge hands and doesn't drop balls. If he can stay healthy and take the next step... Easily a 1,200+ yard WR. He needs to score more TDs to get in that "elite" WR conversation, but I think he has the talent to do it.
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-19-2017
I'll wait until the line can protect whomever is throwing to these guys before looking for how good they can be. So far, they've had some great games and games where they disappear. Is that due to QB play or them? Imagine what these guys could do if their QB had the time of Rodgers...
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-19-2017
Diggs, if he can stay on the field. I think he's got the game to be great just needs the durability to go with it. Thielen is a great complement to Diggs but isn't an "Elite" receiver in my opinion.
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-19-2017
Quote: @1VikesFan said:
Diggs, if he can stay on the field. I think he's got the game to be great just needs the durability to go with it. Thielen is a great complement to Diggs but isn't an "Elite" receiver in my opinion.
I agree with this post. Diggs has what it takes to be elite. He has the attitude to go with it as well. Theilen is a good #2 WR and good compliment. Adam actually really surprised me when he burst out of no where. He really is a great success story.
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-19-2017
Diggs can be elite w/ health, Thielen was the leagues highest rated go route receiver, their ceiling is SuperBowl champions! B)
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-21-2017
Quote: @twgerber said:
Me as well.@Wetlander said:
I was the first to say if Thielen was on the Patriots, he'd be a 90+ catch a season guy before his breakout year. He runs routes good, plays hard, and can make tough catches. Severely underrated athlete with good size. However, if we transition back to a more balanced offense like we were in 2015... I think last season might be his "best" statistical season. In that type of offense that has pass/run splits close to 50-50... he'll probably get 50-60 receptions... around 800 yards... and 4-6 TDs a season. Good production, but not great. If he were in a more pass heavy offense, I think he could easily be a 1,000 yard WR that is viewed as a good #2 option in a passing attack.
As far as Diggs... I would agree with MaroonBells assessment. Antonio Brown-like talent where he will beat press coverage with quick footwork at the line since he won't be muscling through CBs who can get their hands on him. Elite quickness and dangerous RAC ability. Huge hands and doesn't drop balls. If he can stay healthy and take the next step... Easily a 1,200+ yard WR. He needs to score more TDs to get in that "elite" WR conversation, but I think he has the talent to do it. I totally agree with this.
Also in the first paragraph Wetlander mentions the 50/50 split of pass/run. Last year, for numerous reasons we all know, we used the short passing game as run plays. Our run game was the worst in the NFL and was on track to set record of ineptitude. I read one stat where we average 1.89 yards before contact on run plays which which was the 9th worst ranking since 2009. Neither Sam or our RB's had a chance with the decimated OL.
That said, I keep reading quote-after-quote from Zimmer about an improved run game. Both Reiff and Remmers are already known to be better run blockers then pass protectors. Elflein's strength, from all combine reports, is as a run blocker. Then you add the signing of Murray and then the jump up to get Cook and we are going way back to the 50/50 split this year IMO.
Last year we were about 60/40 out of desperation. It will sure help Sam's passing game if we have a run threat and screen threat (hopefully Cook excels there).
So back to the OP topic and the WR's - We are going to more balanced then last year so less chances for the WR's...IMO
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-21-2017
Some people are getting into the Kool-Aid pitcher if they think Diggs has Antonio Brown type talent. No way in heck.
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-21-2017
Quote: @StickyBun said:
Some people are getting into the Kool-Aid pitcher if they think Diggs has Antonio Brown type talent. No way in heck.
I don't think that at all. I think very much that Diggs has the talent to do so. Some could argue that he has more raw talent than Brown does.
Not sure you know just how highly ranked he was going into to college and how he looked when he played in college.
Diggs has the work ethic like no other and always looks for ways to get better. Never says things are good enough. I think we have only seen the beginning of just how good he is. He needs to stay healthy though as well
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-21-2017
Quote: @StickyBun said:Their scouting reports are awfully similar in some regards... There weren't too many NFL draft analysts and NFL teams that were particularly sold on either guy's talent coming out of college considering Brown was a 6th round pick and Diggs was a 5th round pick. One blossomed into an elite WR in his 4th season and the other looks like he could do it in his 3rd season.
Some people are getting into the Kool-Aid pitcher if they think Diggs has Antonio Brown type talent. No way in heck.
WR #1 Measurables
40-yard dash: 4.48 sec
10-yard split: 1.56 sec
20-yard split: 2.61 sec
Short Shuttle: 4.18 sec
3-Cone: 6.98 sec
Vertical: 33.5 inches
Bench Press: 13 reps
Scouting Report #1
Extremely productive receiver that could use another year in college to continue to develop physically. He is undersized and will initially struggle with the physical aspects of the game at the next level. He generally has lined up out of the slot and would have trouble with his release against some of the physical cornerbacks at the next level if he lines up on the line of scrimmage. He is explosive off the line and will show a good burst out of his speed cuts but needs work on his hard cuts and underneath routes. He has decent hands but it looks like the ball gets big on him at times and he traps too many passes in his body.
Strengths: Has a really nice combination of quickness and speed. Has been extremely productive during his college career. Shows very impressive initial quickness when exploding off the line. Displays good agility as a route-runner and with the ball after the catch.
Weaknesses: Lacks size. Not tall and does not possess enough bulk at this time. Needs to add strength to more effectively beat press coverage and battled for the ball in the air. Route running skills could use some refinement. Needs to become more consistent catching the ball in a crowd.
WR #2 Measurables
40-yard dash: 4.46 sec
10-yard split: 1.53 sec
20-yard split: 2.58 sec
Short Shuttle: 4.11 sec
3-Cone: 7.03 sec
Vertical: 35 inches
Bench Press: 11 reps
Scouting Report #2
Strengths: Fluid, flexible athlete. Instinctive route runner. Does an outstanding job of sinking his hips and exploding out of breaks to create immediate separation. Natural ball-plucker. Excellent body control to adjust to throws, whether they're low, high or behind him. Can make contested catches. Dynamic and dangerous with the ball in his hands. Sudden once he's in space, using head fakes and impressive lateral change of direction to make multiple defenders miss. Instant acceleration is his differentiator from the slot. Can be immediate kick returner in the league.
Weaknesses: Most of his production came from slot or as outside receiver in space. Must prove he can win as route runner against quality cornerbacks. Play strength is below par. Gets muscled around by physical defenders. Very aware of oncoming traffic and will stop routes to avoid big hits. Gives moderate effort as a blocker, but rarely ends up getting his man blocked.
QUICK!!! Tell me who is WR #1 and who is WR #2...
What's the ceiling for Diggs? For Thielen? - Guest - 07-21-2017
#2 is Diggs and actually he scored a bit better too.
He caught 84 passes in his 2nd year. Coincidence? I think not lol