Zim and Kickers

JimmyinSDJimmyinSD Posts: 17,213King
edited September 2018 in The Longship
Okay, I remember hearing a sound bite from Zimmer his rookie HC year basically pissing on kickers,  and while walsh wasnt solid prior to him getting here,  he certainly derailed under Zimmer.  then forbath comes in and is pretty solid until he has a miss or 2 and it was all down hill after that,  Carlson has a what sounds like a pretty solid preseason,  but once he starts to miss it completely goes off the rails from there.  at some point we have to start to wonder if these guys are getting pissed on or what.  good coached pick up struggling players and motivate them to do better,  I have to wonder if Zim isnt getting so far up in these guys heads.  kicking is part of the game,  but like receiving and catching it more mental than physical IMO and we have seen recievers and Qbs completely fall apart when the pressure gets to high,  is Zim and company  killing our kickers?
Post edited by JimmyinSD on
Why isnt Chuck Foreman in the hall of fame?





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Comments

  • RiphawkinsRiphawkins Posts: 881Karl
    I thought Forbath was a decent kicker. He missed a few, but wasn’t terrible. They tried upgrading. Hasn’t worked.
    Ralphie
    ”He not busy being born is busy dying” - Bob Dylan
  • JimmyinSDJimmyinSD Posts: 17,213King
    I thought Forbath was a decent kicker. He missed a few, but wasn’t terrible. They tried upgrading. Hasn’t worked.
    he was a mess on extra points,  and as soon as they brought in competition he wilted.  but he wasnt horrible, although he missed enough for me to never be comfortable when he came in to kick, and his leg strength was a problem on kick offs,  at least Carlson has shown that he can pretty much handle those duties without issue.
    Why isnt Chuck Foreman in the hall of fame?





  • RalphieRalphie Posts: 2,266Jarl
    Oh won't you come home Dan Bailey?  Won't you come home? ;)
    prairieghostCaactorvikeWetlanderJustinTime18™purplefaithful

        

  • RiphawkinsRiphawkins Posts: 881Karl
    I thought Forbath was a decent kicker. He missed a few, but wasn’t terrible. They tried upgrading. Hasn’t worked.
    he was a mess on extra points,  and as soon as they brought in competition he wilted.  but he wasnt horrible, although he missed enough for me to never be comfortable when he came in to kick, and his leg strength was a problem on kick offs,  at least Carlson has shown that he can pretty much handle those duties without issue.
    I guess when the best things I can come up with are, He’s decent and wasn’t terrible will tell you how bad a state Blair Walsh left the kicking game.

    They have to do something, you can’t let a rookie kicker bring the whole team down.
    ”He not busy being born is busy dying” - Bob Dylan
  • prairieghostprairieghost Posts: 1,202Jarl
    In these division games it often comes down to a field goal. How many games are they going to let him lose? 1 should be enough...hopefully 
    Ralphiekmillard
  • ArizonaVikingArizonaViking Posts: 1,636Jarl
    I hope tomorrow is swift and brutal for Carlson.  Sign a real kicker Rick...
    prairieghostRalphie
  • BlackMagic7BlackMagic7 Posts: 1,416Jarl
    Why stop at Zimmer? There was no reason to move on from Forbath in the first place. He ultimately solved our problems after Walsh went off the rails; we didnt need to reach and put ourselves in this position in the first place...

    We dont have to hold Spielman in the fire over it, but hindsight is a *****... just a dumb move. If we could land Bailey just do it. Burn the pick, let Carlson go... get better by admitting a mistake and correcting it while a better option is available...
    pattersaurjargomcfargoATXVIKE
  • CaactorvikeCaactorvike Posts: 765Karl
    BMagic—i agree with you.  if we can get Bailey, get him and burn the pick, cut Carlson. But I was never comfortable with Forbath.  Maybe it was just learned behavior after Walsh, but I always held my breath when Forbath was kicking—FGs or EPs. We just gotta do better in this area.
    JimmyinSDRalphie
  • WetlanderWetlander Posts: 3,241Jarl
    I don't think Zimmer is to blame on this...
    RalphieprairieghostHappyVikingpurplefaithful
  • JimmyinSDJimmyinSD Posts: 17,213King
    One thing I think about are those teams have good kickers that struggled in the past but they stuck with them.  Think about the guy we just faced.  A few years ago he was a dumpster fire and cost them several games but they stuck with him and has rebounded to he a pretty reliable guy himself.
    Why isnt Chuck Foreman in the hall of fame?





  • JimmyinSDJimmyinSD Posts: 17,213King
    I don't think Zimmer is to blame on this...
    No way a team is this snakebit at one position without other issues.  Mayne it'd not zimmer,  but something is screwed up besides the kickers heads.
    Why isnt Chuck Foreman in the hall of fame?





  • RiphawkinsRiphawkins Posts: 881Karl
    One thing I think about are those teams have good kickers that struggled in the past but they stuck with them.  Think about the guy we just faced.  A few years ago he was a dumpster fire and cost them several games but they stuck with him and has rebounded to he a pretty reliable guy himself.
    Wasn’t Mason Crosby a bit of a mess for a while? Maybe even Longwell before he came to Minnesota.
    ”He not busy being born is busy dying” - Bob Dylan
  • vikingknightsvikingknights Posts: 93Thrall
    When the antelope is born, it has minutes, not days or weeks or months, to get on it's feet and starting running with the herd or it becomes food for the lion. Carlson is a pro now regardless of his age This is not the first time he has kicked a ball. His time is up. 
    Ralphiepurplefaithful
    When you deal with Knights, you deal with superior intelligence.
  • JimmyinSDJimmyinSD Posts: 17,213King
    When the antelope is born, it has minutes, not days or weeks or months, to get on it's feet and starting running with the herd or it becomes food for the lion. Carlson is a pro now regardless of his age This is not the first time he has kicked a ball. His time is up. 
    That's so stupid.  Good thing they didn't look at Rhodes as an antelope or any of the other thousands of players that take a bit of time to find their groove as a pro.

    I'm not saying carlson will ever be a decent pro,  but I think his leg strength should merit a bit more of an opportunity.   We had plenty of other missed opportunities today to seal this fucker so yes the missed field goals hurt,  but there were plenty of things to look at over all.
    Why isnt Chuck Foreman in the hall of fame?





  • prairieghostprairieghost Posts: 1,202Jarl
    If Zim is to blame then so am I (and believe me I sent a lot of bad juju Walsh’s way, maybe it’s residual.....). I’d be looking at Priefer if you want to blame a coach. 

    But you know at the end of the day these players need to perform. The Treadwell situation is a perfect example. I won’t blame coach Hazell for the game performances of Mr. Practice MVP...
    HidalgoWetlanderScoogRalphie
  • WetlanderWetlander Posts: 3,241Jarl
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    JustinTime18™purplefaithfulkmillardRalphieBlackMagic7
  • StickyBunStickyBun Posts: 15,504King
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    LOL, yep he did. If they keep him, they are really playing it dangerously. If you can't trust him, cut his ass. He should have made the last kick.....that was a joke and only 35 yards. 
    prairieghost
  • PurplewhizzPurplewhizz Posts: 598Karl
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    LOL, yep he did. If they keep him, they are really playing it dangerously. If you can't trust him, cut his ass. He should have made the last kick.....that was a joke and only 35 yards. 
    What gets me is he missed all three pretty much the same way.  Wouldn’t you think an adjustment might be in order?
  • Jor-ElJor-El Posts: 2,362Jarl
    Most kickers seem to need to go through some development and that often involves getting cut by a team or two...maybe it's necessary seasoning. Carlson might end up as a competent NFL placekicker, but right now I think he's snakebit with the Vikings.
    Ralphie
  • FSUVikeFSUVike Posts: 1,451Jarl
    Why stop at Zimmer? There was no reason to move on from Forbath in the first place. He ultimately solved our problems after Walsh went off the rails; we didnt need to reach and put ourselves in this position in the first place...

    We dont have to hold Spielman in the fire over it, but hindsight is a *****... just a dumb move. If we could land Bailey just do it. Burn the pick, let Carlson go... get better by admitting a mistake and correcting it while a better option is available...
    You don't want to move on from the worst extra point kicker from last year? Okeedokee
    BlackMagic7
  • HappyVikingHappyViking Posts: 3,080Jarl
    It only took Carlson two pro games to reach Blair Walsh territory.  He's done as a Viking kicker, as far as I'm concerned.  The kid just doesn't have the mental make up to be a pro kicker.
    prairieghostRalphiePurplewhizz
  • ScoogScoog Posts: 277Karl
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    LOL, yep he did. If they keep him, they are really playing it dangerously. If you can't trust him, cut his ass. He should have made the last kick.....that was a joke and only 35 yards. 
    What gets me is he missed all three pretty much the same way.  Wouldn’t you think an adjustment might be in order?
    And whose job would it be to identify the adjustment that's needed?  Preifer.
    purplefaithful
  • kmillardkmillard Posts: 1,897Jarl
    Maybe they should learn to quit playing for the field goal all the FIN time? That said 3 misses in a row is unacceptable at the NFL level.
    jargomcfargo
  • TyrTyr Posts: 753Karl
    I agree that Zimmer is not the great at handling kickers. He's very blunt about what he expects from kickers and has very little tolerance for mistakes. That in itself can be understandable, but when you're dealing with a guy who's up in his head, then that may just serve to feed into their anxiety. We saw that with Walsh and we've seen an expedited version of that with Carlson. Carlson struggled during the preseason and Zimmer responded by going for 2 to send a message. Unfortunately, when the game was on the line he still let Carlson take the kick and hurt the team because of it.

    I agree that Priefer should bear the most responsibility for this. The special teams unit was shaky in the preseason and have continued to struggle into the regular season. Carlson has imploded, we've had 1 punt blocked and another nearly block, and he made the call to go into a highly important season with two inexperienced kickers. It seems like Priefer gets a fair amount of autonomy, but hopefully the shine of him being a special teams genius is wearing off. The damage from today has already been done, but hopefully the Vikings respond before more damage is done.
    purplefaithfulkmillard
  • PurplewhizzPurplewhizz Posts: 598Karl
    @Scoog said:
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    LOL, yep he did. If they keep him, they are really playing it dangerously. If you can't trust him, cut his ass. He should have made the last kick.....that was a joke and only 35 yards. 
    What gets me is he missed all three pretty much the same way.  Wouldn’t you think an adjustment might be in order?
    And whose job would it be to identify the adjustment that's needed?  Preifer.
    I would think the kicker himself.  When I start fading my tee shots to the right, or begin hooking to the left, I make adjustmemts in my swing or my grip.  I have a hard time believing a kicker wouldn’t know what to do to correct something he did multiple times.

    The reason he can’t make the adjustment is because the cause is likely mental.  Like a case of the yips.
    purplefaithful
  • ScoogScoog Posts: 277Karl
    @Scoog said:
    Jesus, Jimmy...  You want this kid to try to make a pressure kick in the playoffs?  

    He doesn't need time.  He's gone.  If he boots that 35 yarder to win it, he probably saves his job for another week.

    He completely butt-fucked it.  He's unreliable.  That's the worst thing you can be as a kicker.

    He doesn't need a second chance.
    LOL, yep he did. If they keep him, they are really playing it dangerously. If you can't trust him, cut his ass. He should have made the last kick.....that was a joke and only 35 yards. 
    What gets me is he missed all three pretty much the same way.  Wouldn’t you think an adjustment might be in order?
    And whose job would it be to identify the adjustment that's needed?  Preifer.
    I would think the kicker himself.  When I start fading my tee shots to the right, or begin hooking to the left, I make adjustmemts in my swing or my grip.  I have a hard time believing a kicker wouldn’t know what to do to correct something he did multiple times.

    The reason he can’t make the adjustment is because the cause is likely mental.  Like a case of the yips.
    Do you have a golfing coach at the tee with you? If so and he's not telling you what adjustments to make, what are you paying him for? Because I think what the Vikings are paying Preifer for is to help the players succeed.
  • purplefaithfulpurplefaithful Posts: 17,162King
    @Tyr said:
    I agree that Zimmer is not the great at handling kickers. He's very blunt about what he expects from kickers and has very little tolerance for mistakes. That in itself can be understandable, but when you're dealing with a guy who's up in his head, then that may just serve to feed into their anxiety. We saw that with Walsh and we've seen an expedited version of that with Carlson. Carlson struggled during the preseason and Zimmer responded by going for 2 to send a message. Unfortunately, when the game was on the line he still let Carlson take the kick and hurt the team because of it.

    I agree that Priefer should bear the most responsibility for this. The special teams unit was shaky in the preseason and have continued to struggle into the regular season. Carlson has imploded, we've had 1 punt blocked and another nearly block, and he made the call to go into a highly important season with two inexperienced kickers. It seems like Priefer gets a fair amount of autonomy, but hopefully the shine of him being a special teams genius is wearing off. The damage from today has already been done, but hopefully the Vikings respond before more damage is done.
    Excellent Point...

    Priefer probably didnt have a comfortable ride home tonight..
    Tyr
    The 4 stages of a Viking Fans Season; Hope during the offseason, Increased hope during the season, Dagger your hopes in the postseason, Rinse & Repeat...
  • Havoc1649Havoc1649 Posts: 691Karl
    At the 30-39 yard distance Dan Bailey has missed only 3 in his career. 60 of 63. I’d guess a few of those won games for his team. Bailey declined a little bit the past couple of years but he’s by far the right way to go immediately. He’s only 30 so he has the chance to be a long term solution if they can talk him into coming north.
    purplefaithfulprairieghost
  • SDVikesFanSDVikesFan Posts: 4Thrall
    Kickers are a different breed and, unfortunately, that does mean Carlson is likely done as a Viking.  He possibly will rebound and be a very good NFL kicker, but he will never achieve it now with his current coaching staff - these misses will forever be in the back of the minds of Priefer and Zimmer.

    I agree with Jimmy that coaching special teams and kickers, specifically, is a problem with the Vikings.  I don't place the blame on Zimmer other than he should have replaced Priefer years ago.  Priefer has been around for all the special teams fiascos in recent history including Chris Kluwe, Blair Walsh, Jeff Locke, Ryan Quigley, and now Forbath and Carlson.  Perhaps coaching does have something to do with the downfall of specialists who did well before they were Preifered?
    ATXVIKE
  • greedirongreediron Posts: 8,868King
    I wouldn't put Walsh's struggles on Zim.  Dude was a mental case.  Had a great rookie year but then couldn't get out of his own way.  I remember Tom interviewing him and Blair had to switch spots so he didn't look so short.
    prairieghost
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