Murray by the numbers

Thats pretty crazy the last 3 years his lead receiver was McBride...I mean, was there another team in the NFL where the lead receiver 3 years running was a TE?

Maybe Kelce in his prime?

There is a lot of evolution that has to happen with the Vikings and Murray. Whether that be route concepts all the way to how the OL needs to block with someone who is such a good runner etc...

Hopefully our OL coach is pulling some tape on that Az OL and how they did well for their QB.

Lots to unpack, a ton to unpack and implement.

Opposing D's had it so easy playing the Vikings offense last year...Now they really need to think hard about that LOS vs playing JJ/Addison downfield. The looks Murray receives with our WR corps (vs AZ) will probably be pretty mind-blowing for him at 1st.

purplefaithful wrote:
Thats pretty crazy the last 3 years his lead receiver was McBride...I mean, was there another team in the NFL where the lead receiver 3 years running was a TE?

Maybe Kelce in his prime?

There is a lot of evolution that has to happen with the Vikings and Murray. Whether that be route concepts all the way to how the OL needs to block with someone who is such a good runner etc...

Hopefully our OL coach is pulling some tape on that Az OL and how they did well for their QB.

Lots to unpack, a ton to unpack and implement.

Opposing D's had it so easy playing the Vikings offense last year...Now they really need to think hard about that LOS vs playing JJ/Addison downfield. The looks Murray receives with our WR corps (vs AZ) will probably be pretty mind-blowing for him at 1st.

What really struck me was 2020, with nearly 5,000 total yards and 37 total TDs against 11 INTs.

MaroonBells wrote:

What really struck me was 2020, with nearly 5,000 total yards and 37 total TDs against 11 INTs.

You can point to a lot of his early career success as a product of Kliff Kingsbury tailoring an almost college style offense around Murray that put him I the best positions to succeed and maximized his skillset. The worst things to happen to Murray were injury and Kingsbury getting fired. After everything we've seen, how much bending is OConnell willing to do to his offense to maximize some of those same things? If he doesn't, I don't see Murray being successful in his offense as currently constructed.

supafreak84 wrote:

You can point to a lot of his early career success as a product of Kliff Kingsbury tailoring an almost college style offense around Murray that put him I the best positions to succeed and maximized his skillset. The worst things to happen to Murray were injury and Kingsbury getting fired. After everything we've seen, how much bending is OConnell willing to do to his offense to maximize some of those same things? If he doesn't, I don't see Murray being successful in his offense as currently constructed.

I'm guessing a bit. I don't think he needs to change it that much. Probably a little more shotgun, probably a little more leeway in off-structure plays. Whenever Murray has (A) stayed healthy, and (B) had a quality deep receiver, he's put up remarkable numbers, regardless of coordinator.  

This is the best surround Murray has ever had and it's not even close. If he stays healthy, Kyler go' blow the roof off the bank. Write it down.

MaroonBells wrote:

I'm guessing a bit. I don't think he needs to change it that much. Probably a little more shotgun, probably a little more leeway in off-structure plays. Whenever Murray has (A) stayed healthy, and (B) had a quality deep receiver, he's put up remarkable numbers, regardless of coordinator.  

This is the best surround Murray has ever had and it's not even close. If he stays healthy, Kyler go' blow the roof off the bank. Write it down.

Yah, knock wood USB is rocking again after a morbid & putrid 25. I still cant believe that team put up 9 wins. 

I can see more designed runs as well. Be silly not to.

I posted this earlier; get ready for lotsa prime time and holiday games again...Murray on the Vikings is going to catch the imagination of the networks and streaming world

StickierBuns wrote:
Kyler Murray or J.J McCarthy?

@geoffschwartz weighs in on the idea of the Vikings' QB room splitting reps come training camp ?

"When you split those reps up, forming that bond doesn't happen quite as well."

splitting starter reps in the OTAs,  sure,  but by camp they better have a 70/30 or less split figured out so that the favorite gets that time to get comfortable,  since we know they wont get it in actual pre season games.

Yah, I have no idea (if) they will continue any kind of charade TC competition...

It will be interesting to watch it all unfold. Hell, maybe KOC really does see QB1 open going into camp?

I have no idea as of March

I’d guess they have relatively even splits for about 2 weeks, then give one guy more reps from then on out. I think the damage you do with a sham competition probably outweighs the benefits of even having a competition. Be better off just naming a starter day one at that point. I doubt the receivers are really going to be able to build that much chemistry with Kyler in training camp. The point they need the most chemistry with is when the play breaks down and they need to backyard football but be on the same wavelength, and I just don’t think you can really practice that when there’s not really a threat of the getting hit.

medaille wrote:
I’d guess they have relatively even splits for about 2 weeks, then give one guy more reps from then on out.  I think the damage you do with a sham competition probably outweighs the benefits of even having a competition.  Be better off just naming a starter day one at that point.  I doubt the receivers are really going to be able to build that much chemistry with Kyler in training camp.  The point they need the most chemistry with is when the play breaks down and they need to backyard football but be on the same wavelength, and I just don’t think you can really practice that when there’s not really a threat of the getting hit.

Agreed....I think the real work is with the joint practices these days over any PS games anymore. Those days are gone, other than to stack depth.

IMO, this just further stunts McCarthy's growth.  Competition is not what he needs, he needs reps.  I am still baffled by all of this fiasco.

I really couldn't care less about Murray's stats.  I see him play almost every Sunday and have had him on my fantasy keeper team the last two years as a last pick, so really just a value pick who provided me with top 15 starter numbers most weeks.  But he definitely struggles in some games and cannot seem to get much going at times.  I still don't love that he's here.  It's amazing to have his caliber of play for only $1.3M, but what is the plan?  Is he going to be leading this team?  Is he going to win a playoff game with us this year?  Is he going to stay healthy all year?  Is he going to win a Super Bowl with us this year?  What happens after this year?

I just don't recall a situation ever occurring like this when a top 10 QB pick gets 10 games and then is told he needs to compete to win his job back.  What a freaking joke.

IceRatz16 wrote:
IMO, this just further stunts McCarthy's growth.  Competition is not what he needs, he needs reps.  I am still baffled by all of this fiasco.

I really couldn't care less about Murray's stats.  I see him play almost every Sunday and have had him on my fantasy keeper team the last two years as a last pick, so really just a value pick who provided me with top 15 starter numbers most weeks.  But he definitely struggles in some games and cannot seem to get much going at times.  I still don't love that he's here.  It's amazing to have his caliber of play for only $1.3M, but what is the plan?  Is he going to be leading this team?  Is he going to win a playoff game with us this year?  Is he going to stay healthy all year?  Is he going to win a Super Bowl with us this year?  What happens after this year?

I just don't recall a situation ever occurring like this when a top 10 QB pick gets 10 games and then is told he needs to compete to win his job back.  What a freaking joke.

That's kind of where I'm at. I don't get to see JJ McCarthy every day in practice and around the building, all I can go off is what I see in games.  Maybe KOC doesn't like how he handles himself in games or he isn't able to fix his throwing mechanics to take advantage of the routes in this offense?  KOC seemed frustrated by JJ at times during the season, but if he was expecting him to play like a veteran and execute his entire offense, then JJ McCarthy was set up to fail.

Ideally, JJ McCarthy would get a true chance to compete and keep the job.  If he stinks it up, we can always switch to Kyler.  Problem is I think the Vikings have already moved on and if Kyler is the starter, that leaves JJ on the outs.  He'll be a backup this year and then traded in the off-season regardless of how this all plays out. You don't bench your top 10 QB pick after 10 starts and then turn back to him.

IceRatz16 wrote:
I just don't recall a situation ever occurring like this when a top 10 QB pick gets 10 games and then is told he needs to compete to win his job back.  What a freaking joke.

It's the Viking way...and the reality is this is all about OConnell trying save his own ass and the "whisperer" retracting like a turtle when it comes to McCarthy and his commitment to developing him. Instead of trusting in his own coaching to continue to bring along a 23 year old who's only played in 10 pro games, we are back to doing the same old/same old in bringing in a vet on a short term deal hoping to generate enough wins for OConnell to save his job. Knowing everything that we do about OConnell, the Murray pairing is a strange one. Bring out all the random statistics you want. Its like I said, if OConnell wants to dig his own grave here..have at it. I'll shed no tears if we are looking for a new head coach next January.

IceRatz16 wrote:
IMO, this just further stunts McCarthy's growth.  Competition is not what he needs, he needs reps.  I am still baffled by all of this fiasco.

I really couldn't care less about Murray's stats.  I see him play almost every Sunday and have had him on my fantasy keeper team the last two years as a last pick, so really just a value pick who provided me with top 15 starter numbers most weeks.  But he definitely struggles in some games and cannot seem to get much going at times.  I still don't love that he's here.  It's amazing to have his caliber of play for only $1.3M, but what is the plan?  Is he going to be leading this team?  Is he going to win a playoff game with us this year?  Is he going to stay healthy all year?  Is he going to win a Super Bowl with us this year?  What happens after this year?

I just don't recall a situation ever occurring like this when a top 10 QB pick gets 10 games and then is told he needs to compete to win his job back.  What a freaking joke.

Make sure Kyler Murray is on your fantasy team this year. You can thank me later.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
That's kind of where I'm at. I don't get to see JJ McCarthy every day in practice and around the building, all I can go off is what I see in games.  Maybe KOC doesn't like how he handles himself in games or he isn't able to fix his throwing mechanics to take advantage of the routes in this offense?  KOC seemed frustrated by JJ at times during the season, but if he was expecting him to play like a veteran and execute his entire offense, then JJ McCarthy was set up to fail.

Ideally, JJ McCarthy would get a true chance to compete and keep the job.  If he stinks it up, we can always switch to Kyler.  Problem is I think the Vikings have already moved on and if Kyler is the starter, that leaves JJ on the outs.  He'll be a backup this year and then traded in the off-season regardless of how this all plays out. You don't bench your top 10 QB pick after 10 starts and then turn back to him.

Well, at least you admit you haven’t seen JJ McCarthy in practice…or in meetings…or on the sidelines.

I was told to throw out kyler's stats

StickierBuns wrote:
Not sure if he's digging his own grave or not, I still have a lot of faith in KOC, but I won't dismiss what you say here either. I guess we'll see. Fans expectations should begin at 10 wins as a floor, that goes without saying. A few fans seem all in already, but lets not confuse an exciting player with a player that's going to help produce wins. Big difference. I'm a Viking's fan, so that's my hope. But I'll have to see it before I take more than a cursory polite sip of the Purple Kool Aid.

My faith in OConnell went totally out the window last year when every narrative and media tag-line played out as adamantly false. He's no more a "whisperer" than Brad Chidresses offense was "kick ass" and whether he retains his job beyond next season or not, should never again be entrusted with the development of another young quarterback in Minnesota. McCarthy was his guy, he had a very large part in him being drafted, touted him up as a franchise guy, than throws in the towel on him 10 games into his career in an attempt to get a playoff win and save his job. I really don't give a shit about OConnell and if the choice was between using next season to see if McCarthy is the guy, or winning enough games for OConnell to save his job, the choice should be McCarthy every time and OConnell should be made to either sink or swim based on McCarthy's development and how he plays. But nope, we have an incompetent ownership group who once again bows down at the thrown and gives a guy who's never won jack shit a reprieve and even more power to do what he wants.

pattersaur wrote:
I was told to throw out kyler's stats

That was a smart guy who told you that. You should listen to him more. Oh sure, if you want an idea of how Murray performed wandering alone in the desert, have at it. But if you want an idea of how he’ll perform in the land of milk and the Mighty Minnesota Fightin’ Vikings, they’re as useless as bacon at a bar mitzvah...or the numbers Ginger Jesus put up pre-purple.

StickierBuns wrote:

This^
Its the only thing I've ever said about this with the strongest intent. Its never happened before and it sure as hell isn't going to happen now. Why some fans think this isn't the case is honestly astounding to me. Its the the most glaring lack-of-faith move that KOC could make and he's making it. Even if Murray shits the bed in Minnesota, they are DONE with McCarthy. So it is what it is and KOC needs to keep his yapper shut about organizations failing QBs because in hindsight it now  sounds naive and self-serving. The moral: not every QB can be coached up.
I believe in KOC + KOC is in on Kyler Murray = a big year for Minnesota. Simple math. Anything else and maybe another baby, a very tall one, is going to go out with the bathwater as well. I sincerely hope that isn't the case and I'd rather just be very wrong about JJM than being wrong about KOC.

I agree the Vikings for 26 with Murray is exciting. Maybe the most exciting since signing Bert, time will tell.

I acknowledge it would be a path with lots of curves, but I dont believe JJM days here are done. In fact, I'm surprised we're on such opposite ends of whether that means the end of JJM in MN or not? 

AND are the Vikings justified in their decision to sign the former #1 pick? 

1). I think the chances of JJM getting opportunities for meaningful play in real games with the 1's in 26 are good (real good). What he does with those opportunities is up to him. 

2). Regardless of what I gleam from the media, I think the chances of Murray being here after 26 are less than 50/50. 

3). I think the Vikings are legitimately looking for proof of growth and reason for hope from JJM. But I dont blame them for not handing him the reigns without showing them he can handle his biz on the field.  

4). Murray was head and shoulders above the other choices at QB to join the franchise. $$ wise and ceiling of play wise. 

It would have been criminal if the Vikings didn't sign him when given the opportunity. Bottom line for me is that regardless of how he plays, Murray is going to be a FA and he'll have opportunities elsewhere, multi-year opportunities. 

This isnt directed at you, but at this visceral (hard for me to understand) reaction some Viking fans have being enraged at the org taking cover after JJM stunk up the joint in 25. 

Are they really going to risk another wasted year for Darrisaw, TJH, Jettas, Gink, Greenard et al? Were they supposed to ignore Murray shaking loose? Wanting to resurrect here? At $1.5m? With no long-term commitment to kick the tires? 

Should they have spent more for Jimmy G? G. Smith? Wentz? Flacco and have a lesser competition? 

I am now officially burned out on this lol! I'm ready for the draft.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

...  You don't bench your top 10 QB pick after 10 starts and then turn back to him.

StickierBuns wrote:

This^

Its the only thing I've ever said about this with the strongest intent. Its never happened before and it sure as hell isn't going to happen now. Why some fans think this isn't the case is honestly astounding to me. Its the the most glaring lack-of-faith move that KOC could make and he's making it. Even if Murray shits the bed in Minnesota, they are DONE with McCarthy. So it is what it is and KOC needs to keep his yapper shut about organizations failing QBs because in hindsight it now  sounds naive and self-serving. The moral: not every QB can be coached up.

I believe in KOC + KOC is in on Kyler Murray = a big year for Minnesota. Simple math. Anything else and maybe another baby, a very tall one, is going to go out with the bathwater as well. I sincerely hope that isn't the case and I'd rather just be very wrong about JJM than being wrong about KOC.

Like what are some similar situations that have happened in the past, where a team with a young inexperienced QB had the opportunity to get a starting caliber QB for free?

I can’t think of one, I don’t think history is of much use, because this isn’t a normal situation.  Literally every team should have been trying to get Kyler Murray for $1.3M(?).  Because the Vikings won this lottery, doesn’t mean that JJM is shit, and even if he had a rough half a season of play, which almost all first time QBs do, it doesn’t mean that the Vikings are done with him.

And lets be honest.  The Cardinals let Murray go for a reason.  What are the historical precedences where a team gets rid of their starting caliber QB and eats a ton of cap to do so?  For the most part, those are guys that suck and are no longer worth having on the team, because teams don’t usually have backup plans and cutting your starting QB to get back on the “trying to find a QB” train is incredibly painful.  The only one that was really worth it was the Packers moving from Rodgers to Love and like how worth it was it for them?  If we're using historical precedence for one, are we using it for both QBs?

Like if you bring your wife’s cooking to work for lunch, and then the company surprises you by giving you a free restaurant lunch.  It doesn’t mean your wife’s cooking sucks.  Maybe it does, but maybe free restaurant lunch is also nice.

supafreak84 wrote:
the choice should be McCarthy every time and OConnell should be made to either sink or swim based on McCarthy's development and how he plays. But nope, we have an incompetent ownership group who once again bows down at the thrown and gives a guy who's never won jack shit a reprieve and even more power to do what he wants.

The irony is crazy rich here given how much you hated KAM, because KOC maneuvering him out of the way pretty much was the move needed to ditch JJM.  I believe KAM's long term plan at QB meant he would have insisted on what you want above - KOC sinks or swims with JMM.  And I am convinced that the weirdly timed firing was all about that power struggle and KOC (possibly with an assist from Flores) won it with the win-now Wilfs.  The awkwardness Mark Wilf displayed in that post-firing presser said it all. 

If the guy you hated was still here I think JJM would still be QB1 whether KOC liked it or not because KAM would not have gone after Kyler.  His future was tied to JJM, but somehow KOC the politician was able to smooth-talk his bosses into a different reality.  JJM griddying it in Dallas and saying coach said don't and that inspired him to do it... that's kinda like running to the sidelines and screaming, "Nine!!" at KOC while holding up two middle fingers.  That and a whole bunch of other stuff seems to have soured KOC on the kid.  So here we are in that different reality, with a lot of fans bewildered at how it went down.  The very dysfunctional Vikings org under the Wilfs marches on.

comet52 wrote:

The irony is crazy rich here given how much you hated KAM, because KOC maneuvering him out of the way pretty much was the move needed to ditch JJM.  I believe KAM's long term plan at QB meant he would have insisted on what you want above - KOC sinks or swims with JMM.  And I am convinced that the weirdly timed firing was all about that power struggle and KOC (possibly with an assist from Flores) won it with the win-now Wilfs.  The awkwardness Mark Wilf displayed in that post-firing presser said it all. 

If the guy you hated was still here I think JJM would still be QB1 whether KOC liked it or not because KAM would not have gone after Kyler.  His future was tied to JJM, but somehow KOC the politician was able to smooth-talk his bosses into a different reality.  JJM griddying it in Dallas and saying coach said don't and that inspired him to do it... that's kinda like running to the sidelines and screaming, "Nine!!" at KOC while holding up two middle fingers.  That and a whole bunch of other stuff seems to have soured KOC on the kid.  So here we are in that different reality, with a lot of fans bewildered at how it went down.  The very dysfunctional Vikings org under the Wilfs marches on.

But you are essentially washing OConnell of any blame in using a top 10 pick to draft McCarthy or his development (or lack there of) as a quarterback. To think OConnell wasn't hugely involved in the drafting of McCarthy would be extremely short sighted. Yes, KAM was a problem and I said it from day one, but to me, OConnell showed his true colors this last season and now I think only half the problem has been eliminated. I don't believe him to be the offensive savant he is portrayed to be and after his whole "Organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations" shtick that's been echoed ad nauseum, then he goes out and does that EXACT thing to McCarthy in an effort to save his own ass! Cant make this stuff up.You are absolutely right though in that the eternal dysfunction of this franchise under Wilf ownership marches on.