Grim Reapers

MaroonBells wrote:
https://x.com/PFF/status/2004613270947463217?s=20

I am so happy for DT especially with the heat he has received on this board and the names he has been called.
I hope he just keeps working and taking advantage of his opportunities.

mblack wrote:

I am so happy for DT especially with the heat he has received on this board and the names he has been called.
I hope he just keeps working and taking advantage of his opportunities.

Wasn't Turner drafted about 17 overall? That's going pretty well for the Vikings lately. Team tank shouldn't upset we're winning games now, just be mad that we lost games then.

pattersaur wrote:

Wasn't Turner drafted about 17 overall? That's going pretty well for the Vikings lately. Team tank shouldn't upset we're winning games now, just be mad that we lost games then.

Yep, Turner was taken 17th. Incidentally, tackle JC Latham was taken 7th that year. Both have been promising. Year before, Tyree Wilson was taken 7th and Christian Gonzalez was taken 17th. Wilson has been a mild bust and Gonzalez was All Pro last year. Year before that, Zion Johnson was taken 17th, Evan Neal 7th. Johnson is a league average player. Neal is one of the biggest busts of the last decade. 

Obviously the higher you pick the higher your odds of hitting, but it's no guarantee.

MaroonBells wrote:

Yep, Turner was taken 17th. Incidentally, tackle JC Latham was taken 7th that year. Both have been promising. Year before, Tyree Wilson was taken 7th and Christian Gonzalez was taken 17th. Wilson has been a mild bust and Gonzalez was All Pro last year. Year before that, Zion Johnson was taken 17th, Evan Neal 7th. Johnson is a league average player. Neal is one of the biggest busts of the last decade. 

Obviously the higher you pick the higher your odds of hitting, but it's no guarantee.

I go back to two things. The first being after years of evaluations, Bill Polian says that typically there are only about 15 true 1st round worthy talents in every draft, so staying in that range is to your advantage historically. The Vikings need help in multiple areas and drafting an impact player is crucial for us. The second being with this front office's draft record, drafting as early as possible in every round can only help our cause. Asking Kwesi to wade through muddied mid-round waters in every round and identify impact players is like asking a blind man throwing darts to hit a bullseye, except he's a paraplegic now too.

supafreak84 wrote:

I go back to two things. The first being after years of evaluations, Bill Polian says that typically there are only about 15 true 1st round worthy talents in every draft, so staying in that range is to your advantage historically. The Vikings need help in multiple areas and drafting an impact player is crucial for us. The second being with this front office's draft record, drafting as early as possible in every round can only help our cause. Asking Kwesi to wade through muddied mid-round waters in every round and identify impact players is like asking a blind man throwing darts to hit a bullseye, except he's a paraplegic now too.

Rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat.

ArizonaViking wrote:

Rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat...rinse and repeat.

When he starts hitting on draft picks it will stop being a topic of discussion. Sorry if that causes you angst

Nothing like a little tunnel vision? Doesn't cause me any angst. You probably developed an ulcer dwelling Kwesi all the time.

ArizonaViking wrote:
Nothing like a little tunnel vision?  Doesn't cause me any angst.  You probably developed an ulcer dwelling Kwesi all the time.

The problem is the problem...and until the problem ISN'T the problem...it will continue to be a topic of discussion. Sorry if that bunches your panties on a discussion board

supafreak84 wrote:

The problem is the problem...and until the problem ISN'T the problem...it will continue to be a topic of discussion. Sorry if that bunches your panties on a discussion board

LMAO...It doesn't cause me any discomfort at all.  The reality is Kwasi probably won't be going anywhere soon, at least this coming year.  The following year...maybe?

ArizonaViking wrote:

LMAO...It doesn't cause me any discomfort at all.  The reality is Kwasi probably won't be going anywhere soon, at least this coming year.  The following year...maybe?

Lol well it must have caused you some discomfort based on your need to comment on it and attempt to take a shot at me. So again, my apologies for bunching your panties on a discussion board. I do agree with you though that this recent mini winning streak has likely saved his job, which makes his draft record and roster building a topic of offseason discussion as we head towards another draft. So if that causes you to sweat, might just want to tune out until the regular season starts up again because it's going to be a long offseason for you.

supafreak84 wrote:

Lol well it must have caused you some discomfort based on your need to comment on it and attempt to take a shot at me. So again, my apologies for bunching your panties on a discussion board. I do agree with you though that this recent mini winning streak has likely saved his job, which makes his draft record and roster building a topic of offseason discussion as we head towards another draft. So if that causes you to sweat, might just want to tune out until the regular season starts up again because it's going to be a long offseason for you.

Oh, not really...I realize I don't have any control over the organization decides to hire, sign or draft.  I'm just a fan hoping they might get it right.

ArizonaViking wrote:

Oh, not really...I realize I don't have any control over the organization decides to hire, sign or draft.  I'm just a fan hoping they might get it right.

Unfortunately we are all waiting for them (some of us longer than others) to "get it right." Three playoff wins in 21 years of Wilf ownership. The nutless and dysfunctional New York Jets have more playoff victories in that same time period. Regular season success doesn't mean shit to me anymore. Give me a team built for the playoffs that can legitimately win a championship. It's been 40+ years for me of "hoping they might get it right" and they never do

supafreak84 wrote:

Unfortunately we are all waiting for them (some of us longer than others) to "get it right." Three playoff wins in 21 years of Wilf ownership. The nutless and dysfunctional New York Jets have more playoff victories in that same time period. Regular season success doesn't mean shit to me anymore. Give me a team built for the playoffs that can legitimately win a championship. It's been 40+ years for me of "hoping they might get it right" and they never do

I'm with you regarding not satisfied with gaudy regular seasons, but home field is so important too. 

I think their intent was spot on and they attempted to build a team that wins in the post-season and addressed 24 weakness.

Hell, they threw $300mm at the roster. But the execution lacked.

Injuries and poor QB'ing killed this team, not ownership - least not this year. This from a fan who witnesses's the Twins every year and worked for a Pohlad Org too.

purplefaithful wrote:

I'm with you regarding not satisfied with gaudy regular seasons, but home field is so important too. 

I think their intent was spot on and they attempted to build a team that wins in the post-season and addressed 24 weakness.

Hell, they threw $300mm at the roster. But the execution lacked.

Injuries and poor QB'ing killed this team, not ownership - least not this year. This from a fan who witnesses's the Twins every year and worked for a Pohlad Org too.

Three playoff wins in 21 years of ownership. It's hard to say ownership isn't the problem when the proof is in the pudding and the one constant in that equation is ownership. They are some of the worst at hiring the wrong people and then saddling those people with unrealistic competitive mandates. They run the team like fans and would rather build it up to win 7, 8, 9 games a year consistently (going nowhere) then see a sometimes necessary 3, 4 or 5 wins and taking your lumps in a real rebuild. It's a philosophy that has not served this franchise well over the years and its all been gone over on this board ad nauseum, but our lack of playoff success starts at the top.

supafreak84 wrote:

Three playoff wins in 21 years of ownership. It's hard to say ownership isn't the problem when the proof is in the pudding and the one constant in that equation is ownership. They are some of the worst at hiring the wrong people and then saddling those people with unrealistic competitive mandates. They run the team like fans and would rather build it up to win 7, 8, 9 games a year consistently (going nowhere) then see a sometimes necessary 3, 4 or 5 wins and taking your lumps in a real rebuild. It's a philosophy that has not served this franchise well over the years and its all been gone over on this board ad nauseum, but our lack of playoff success starts at the top.

I can understand that conclusion regarding their broader ownership journey. I'm mostly aligned with you on it, not completely though.

My point was really about this year in isolation. Good intent, bad execution and poor luck are my fan buzzwords for 25.

supafreak84 wrote:

Three playoff wins in 21 years of ownership. It's hard to say ownership isn't the problem when the proof is in the pudding and the one constant in that equation is ownership. They are some of the worst at hiring the wrong people and then saddling those people with unrealistic competitive mandates. They run the team like fans and would rather build it up to win 7, 8, 9 games a year consistently (going nowhere) then see a sometimes necessary 3, 4 or 5 wins and taking your lumps in a real rebuild. It's a philosophy that has not served this franchise well over the years and its all been gone over on this board ad nauseum, but our lack of playoff success starts at the top.

I've begrudgingly been on team tank in the past for a game or two, when the Vikings season was already toast. But I'm not sure what more they could have done this year.

Tanking with McCarthy starting amid questions about losing the locker room was never going to happen and wouldn't have been wise. Once Brosmer was in there I can see the tank vision, but we were playing against a Giants team solely focused on losing. That made it hard. Then the next week losing to Detroit would have made sense, but it's a division game on Christmas Day and apparently our defense took that personally. And now we play our biggest rival who is reeling in the last game of the season. I watched the Panthers knee out the clock at home yesterday to lose by 20 and it was pathetic. That's not really how I want the Vikes season to end so I'll be rooting for a victory.

Last note on possibly tanking that doesn't get brought up much but may play a big part behind the scenes-- Isn't the suggestion of tanking what started the whole Brian Flores/Miami Dolphins rift and eventual lawsuit? Judging by that and the recent play by our defense, BFlo doesn't seem like the tank type lol.

Let's beat GB!

purplefaithful wrote:

Agreed, at this point lets just beat the Pack!

Good catch on Dirty Harry...Ive done a complete 180 on him and would love him back another year to help mentor a newbie.

Overall a really tough fan year and I hate how it unfolded, especially at QB. As fun as most of last year was, this year wasn't. Least for me. 

That said, they're sniffing .500 cause of BFlo/KOC and their ability to keep the locker room united and the team from coming apart. Will the owners recognize this vs the GM? I dont know, there's a time for that later. 

For now? I'm enjoying a sweep of the Kitties.

Was thinking the same lately.  After watching him and Gink in the Lions game, we need both of them.  Our D struggled early on without them. 

And yes, KOC has built the culture of a winning team.  If we can hit on JJ at QB, stay relatively healthy, and KOC remembers his playcalling adjustments, we could make a run next year.