Commanders @ Vikings

Thursday, Dec. 4

Vikings
Left guard Donovan Jackson returned to practice Thursday as a limited participant, meaning he could have a chance to play Sunday against Washington. Left tackle Christian Darrisaw did not practice, but that has been part of his typical weekly routine while managing last year’s knee injury. He’s expected to practice Friday and play Sunday.

Guard Blake Brandel, who would replace Jackson if needed, has progressed through the concussion protocol. He was a full participant and no longer needed the red, no-contact jersey.

Defensive tackle Levi Drake Rodriguez remains out due to a neck injury.

Four starters remain limited by injuries: outside linebacker Jonathan Greenard (shoulder), safety Josh Metellus (shoulder), running back Aaron Jones Sr. (shoulder) and safety Theo Jackson (neck).

Center Ryan Kelly (hip), running back Ty Chandler (knee) and defensive tackle Jalen Redmond (hip) were upgraded to full participants.

Commanders
The big development out of Washington on Thursday was that quarterback Jayden Daniels took every rep in practice, indicating he might play against the Vikings. Daniels has missed the last three games after suffering a dislocated left elbow Nov. 2 against the Seahawks.

purplefaithful wrote:
Thursday, Dec. 4

Vikings
Left guard Donovan Jackson returned to practice Thursday as a limited participant, meaning he could have a chance to play Sunday against Washington. Left tackle Christian Darrisaw did not practice, but that has been part of his typical weekly routine while managing last year’s knee injury. He’s expected to practice Friday and play Sunday.

Guard Blake Brandel, who would replace Jackson if needed, has progressed through the concussion protocol. He was a full participant and no longer needed the red, no-contact jersey.

Defensive tackle Levi Drake Rodriguez remains out due to a neck injury.

Four starters remain limited by injuries: outside linebacker Jonathan Greenard (shoulder), safety Josh Metellus (shoulder), running back Aaron Jones Sr. (shoulder) and safety Theo Jackson (neck).

Center Ryan Kelly (hip), running back Ty Chandler (knee) and defensive tackle Jalen Redmond (hip) were upgraded to full participants.

Commanders
The big development out of Washington on Thursday was that quarterback Jayden Daniels took every rep in practice, indicating he might play against the Vikings. Daniels has missed the last three games after suffering a dislocated left elbow Nov. 2 against the Seahawks.

Daniels being rusty and playing poorly in his first game back is probably our best hope to win this week. Him getting the start probably increases the chances we get totally blown out, but also the chances we win I think. Provided we score more than zero points, of course.

I am hoping for hope with JJM the rest of the way...Starting Sunday

medaille wrote:
I want to end on a high note, where we have a manageable amount of problems, and hope going into next season.

I don't want to shit the bed, because everyone said it didn't matter, only to listen to them complain for the next 9 months about how bad we did (when it didn't matter).

I swear our fans would argue for putting in all the backups and then complaining that the backups sucked and the coaching staff needs to be fired.

*L* You're not wrong. Ever forget to take out the trash? And that singular mistake, in the mind of your wife anyway, expands to an enduring beef about your attitude, your salary, your mother and your aftershave? That’s kinda what’s happening among certain Viking fans right now.

Losing seems to suck out whatever football acumen they might've once had. The truth is that bad QB play makes the coach look bad, makes leadership look bad, makes the play calls look bad, makes the line, the running game and the defense look bad too. Football is a game of synergies. It's all tied together. I think everyone implicitly knows this. 

I think they also know that with just average QB play—something along the lines of Trevor Lawrence—this team is in the playoff hunt and we're not having any of these conversations. But that fact is drowned out by all the screaming about the mother and the aftershave.

How did Brandel make it through concussion protocol already? It feels like if you get a concussion, you should be sitting for a week at least.

medaille wrote:
How did Brandel make it through concussion protocol already?  It feels like if you get a concussion, you should be sitting for a week at least.

That might be the prudent approach, but I think the protocol is based on symptoms and I read that Brandel wasn't showing any.

Sunday’s matchup between the Vikings and Commanders will be another showdown between two 2024 quarterbacks, as Washington coach Dan Quinn announced Friday that No. 2 overall pick Jayden Daniels will start.

Daniels has been out since exiting against the Seahawks on Nov. 2 with a dislocated left elbow. It’s the third injury that’s benched him this season; Marcus Mariota has started has started six times in his place.

“It’s been a lot of adversity, but I’m young in my career,” Daniels said Friday. “Something that I gotta battle through. You go through adversity at some point, so however you try to approach it and weather the storm and come out seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.”

Daniels practiced in full for the first time Thursday after Quinn spent the beginning of the week talking about Daniels needing to go through QB-specific contact scenarios to be cleared.

Quinn said he felt good about Daniels’ chances at going since Wednesday’s practice.

Daniels said his confidence this week came from his range of movement, strength and “itch” to get back out there told him he was ready to return.

Vikings coach Kevin O’Connell said Friday that the Vikings went about the week as if Daniels would play, calling him “one of the best young players in the NFL.” Daniels led the Commanders to the NFC Championship Game last year, beating the Lions on the way there.

The Vikings, meanwhile, could have their full offensive line available again Sunday against the Commanders as Donovan Jackson made a limited return to practice Thursday from his ankle injury and was again limited Friday.

He was listed as questionable, as was left tackle Christian Darrisaw, who missed Thursday’s practice but was a full participant both Wednesday and Friday.
“Both CD and Donovan got some great work in today,” O’Connell said. “We’ll see how they turn over over the next 24 hours and hopefully have both those guys for the game.”

Even if Jackson or Darrisaw can’t go, the Vikings will have their multi-tool backup Blake Brandel available. He cleared concussion protocol after being placed in it following the Seahawks game.

The only two players the Vikings listed as out are safety Theo Jackson (neck) and defensive lineman Levi Drake Rodriguez (neck).

This will be McCarthy’s seventh start of the season, having missed five games because of a high ankle sprain and Sunday’s shutout loss to the Seahawks because of the concussion suffered against the Packers.

The Vikings shifted the focus amid their offense’s ongoing struggles, aiming to simplify for McCarthy, who on Thursday spoke candidly about his tendency to overthink.

“Cut it loose, pull the trigger, you’re prepared,” O’Connell said of his message to McCarthy. “He understands this game plan. He’s had a really good week of practice. Threw the ball really well. I think it’s now a matter of a lot of the principles that we’ve talked about coming in to play.”

Chief among those, O’Connell said, is McCarthy’s decisionmaking and creating real chances for the Vikings’ biggest playmakers to succeed at any level, whether it be a down-the-field shot to wide receiver Justin Jefferson, tight end T.J. Hockenson over the middle of the field or running back Aaron Jones Sr. on a check down.

“We’ve got playmakers that J.J. knows can do a lot of really good things if we get the ball in their hands,” O’Connell said. “Can we pitch-and-catch at the level that gives us opportunities to stack positive plays and have success?”

STRIB

MaroonBells wrote:

*L* You're not wrong. Ever forget to take out the trash? And that singular mistake, in the mind of your wife anyway, expands to an enduring beef about your attitude, your salary, your mother and your aftershave? That’s kinda what’s happening among certain Viking fans right now.

Losing seems to suck out whatever football acumen they might've once had. The truth is that bad QB play makes the coach look bad, makes leadership look bad, makes the play calls look bad, makes the line, the running game and the defense look bad too. Football is a game of synergies. It's all tied together. I think everyone implicitly knows this. 

I think they also know that with just average QB play—something along the lines of Trevor Lawrence—this team is in the playoff hunt and we're not having any of these conversations. But that fact is drowned out by all the screaming about the mother and the aftershave.

Who wants average quarterback play? We are all beyond tired of average quarterback play and this team being a borderline playoff contenders without ever being real Super Bowl contenders. That's Wilf thinking right there and has done nothing for us. We are now praying for "average quarterback play" and hoping we can land Mac fucking Jones or Trevor Lawrence because McCarthy has been the worst quarterback in the league? Lol. What a spot to be in courtesy of ownership, the front office, and the coaching staff who has royally shit the bed this year (minus Flores).

supafreak84 wrote:

Who wants average quarterback play? We are all beyond tired of average quarterback play and this team being a borderline playoff contenders without ever being real Super Bowl contenders. That's Wilf thinking right there and has done nothing for us. We are now praying for "average quarterback play" and hoping we can land Mac fucking Jones or Trevor Lawrence because McCarthy has been the worst quarterback in the league? Lol. What a spot to be in courtesy of ownership, the front office, and the coaching staff who has royally shit the bed this year (minus Flores).

I guess what did you expect with a 22 year old QB? A coach that didn't show he could run his system around the young QB, but force his style when they weren't ready for it. You can blame whos fault is that and point fingers till you are blue in the face. 

It is what it is. I hope the Brosmer circus fiasco shed some light on what was really going on, something I questioned in week 2 and it really came to light in the Ravens game. Let the young ones play and not think as much. The way it seems, KOC was really big and drilled on running things his way with perfection and no mistakes. Well, you forgot that infants aren't great at following every steps. KOC has a system that really is complex. KOC himself has made some rookie areas IMO. It is time to see if he can change that and bring JJ up a bit different than what he was doing.

Canthony wrote:

I guess what did you expect with a 22 year old QB? A coach that didn't show he could run his system around the young QB, but force his style when they weren't ready for it. You can blame whos fault is that and point fingers till you are blue in the face. 

It is what it is. I hope the Brosmer circus fiasco shed some light on what was really going on, something I questioned in week 2 and it really came to light in the Ravens game. Let the young ones play and not think as much. The way it seems, KOC was really big and drilled on running things his way with perfection and no mistakes. Well, you forgot that infants aren't great at following every steps. KOC has a system that really is complex. KOC himself has made some rookie areas IMO. It is time to see if he can change that and bring JJ up a bit different than what he was doing.

I like KOC a lot and (rightly or wrongly) believe the ship will be righted at some point. 

I've seen the offense dumb-down quite a bit the last mos, so its not like the Commander game is the first to simplify. But it might be the first to simplify it to the degree it needed to be for a 22 year old coming out of a run-heavy Michigan system. I think thats where my consternation and criticism lies. 

This year is lost and F'd...All I can hope for now is McCarthy starts giving himself and fans hope and they make changes that result in better performance in 26. 

For me, that has to include front office, coaching and players. 

Onward we go...

I think we could see a mini-breakout of sorts for JJ in December. Next three opponents passing yards given up per game and where that ranks....

Commanders (254.9, 30th)
Cowboys (255.2, 31st)
Giants (231.5, 24th)

purplefaithful wrote:

I like KOC a lot and believe the ship will be righted at some point. 

But it shouldn't have taken this late in the season for him to evolve managing the Qb and having this epiphany on doing it a different way. 

I've seen the offense dumb-down quite a bit the last mos, so its not like the Commander game is the first to simplify. But it might be the first to simplify it to the degree it needed to be for a 22 year old coming out of a run-heavy Michigan system. I think thats where my consternation and criticism lies. 

This year is lost and F'd...All I can hope for now is McCarthy starts giving himself and fans hope and they make changes that result in better performance in 26. 

For me, that has to include front office, coaching and players. 

Onward we go...

I bought into the whole "dirty hands" narrative with young QB's and was impressed with the wisdom and integrity of that position by the organization.  Last year and this off-season I bought the PR and believed a plan was in place to develop JJM into the QBOF.  Whether it was mal, mis or nonfeasance, if this was a legal issue it would be a crime.  As a lifelong fan, I feel totally betrayed by this organization.

MaroonBells wrote:
I think we could see a mini-breakout of sorts for JJ in December. Next three opponents passing yards given up per game and where that ranks.... Commanders (254.9, 30th) Cowboys (255.2, 31st) Giants (231.5, 24th)

If you dont have the QB right, you're pretty much in purgatory....And I think Gannon was right, expectations way too high for this 22 year old QB. I think this was true of the fans AND the Vikings both. 

============================

The Vikings have made the playoffs 10 times this quarter-century, tied for ninth best. But they’ve done it in consecutive seasons only once (2008-09). Since 2010, the Vikings, Washington, Jacksonville, Chicago and Cleveland are the only teams without consecutive playoff seasons.

“Is it just about getting your quarterback? I think it is,” said Brad Childress, the only Vikings coach to post consecutive playoff appearances this quarter-century.

Childress was in the losing locker room after the Vikings and Tarvaris Jackson were upset by the Eagles and Donovan McNabb as a No. 3 seed to open the 2008 postseason. Old friend and former boss Andy Reid, then coaching the Eagles, walked in with words that steeled Childress’ resolve to bring Brett Favre to Minnesota the following summer.

“Andy said, ‘If you ever get that quarterback situation straight, you got something,’” Childress said. Favre led the Vikings to the NFC title game the next season. 

Since then, the Vikings have started 20 quarterbacks in 16 seasons. Five of them went 2-6 in six playoff appearances over 15 seasons: Joe Webb (0-1), Teddy Bridgewater (0-1), Case Keenum (1-1), Kirk Cousins (1-2) and Sam Darnold (0-1) last season.

The hope — no, the expectation — for this year was a seamless transition with reigning NFL Coach of the Year Kevin O’Connell, McCarthy coming off a knee injury that wiped out his entire rookie season, and $300 million worth of veteran free-agent signings.

“It was the perfect storm,” said Rich Gannon, former Vikings quarterback and 2002 league MVP. “Sam plays great. It’s ‘Kevin’s the Quarterback Whisperer.’ ‘Throw anybody in there and he can make them Johnny Unitas or Fran Tarkenton.’

“I live in Minnesota. People asking me in the summer, ‘Can J.J. take them to the Super Bowl?’ I’m like, ‘Guys, you got no idea how hard this is.’ There were unrealistic expectations on J.J.”

STRIb

BigAl99 wrote:

I bought into the whole "dirty hands" narrative with young QB's and was impressed with the wisdom and integrity of that position by the organization.  Last year and this off-season I bought the PR and believed a plan was in place to develop JJM into the QBOF.  Whether it was mal, mis or nonfeasance, if this was a legal issue it would be a crime.  As a lifelong fan, I feel totally betrayed by this organization.

I personally find fault with their execution, I believe the intent to be from a good place.

BigAl99 wrote:

I bought into the whole "dirty hands" narrative with young QB's and was impressed with the wisdom and integrity of that position by the organization.  Last year and this off-season I bought the PR and believed a plan was in place to develop JJM into the QBOF.  Whether it was mal, mis or nonfeasance, if this was a legal issue it would be a crime.  As a lifelong fan, I feel totally betrayed by this organization.

You're dismissing the fact that JJ McCarthy, out of 29 possible starts, has missed 23. That's 23 out of 29 games where he was not getting reps, and in many cases, not in practice either. He's not just an unusually young QB; he's an unusually young QB who has missed 80% of his work. Just something to consider.

MaroonBells wrote:

You're dismissing the fact that JJ McCarthy, out of 29 possible starts, has missed 23. That's 23 out of 29 games where he was not getting reps, and in many cases, not in practice either. He's not just an unusually young QB; he's an unusually young QB who has missed 80% of his work. Just something to consider.

Why did they put him out there with the C on his jersey and the weight of the team on his shoulders at the beginning of the season?  Did they have no clue if he was ready?  Did they know or expect him be successful anyway.  What point was KOC making when He made the "Dirty Hands" analogy?  I thought he was saying that the collective would avoid putting him out there if he wasn't ready and adapting things to his needs.   In hindsight what was done competently to do that ?  Letting Jones walk without allowing him to compete, Sam Howell, Wentz?   At best they have been incompetent at worst too prideful and arrogant to develop a strategy to help him.  Don't get me wrong, I have bled purple for the duration of the team's existence, and this is the last place I wanted this team to be in.  I just see the Wilf org. using this team as a real estate marketing tool, they have built a Potemkin Village not a winning team.  .

MaroonBells wrote:

You're dismissing the fact that JJ McCarthy, out of 29 possible starts, has missed 23. That's 23 out of 29 games where he was not getting reps, and in many cases, not in practice either. He's not just an unusually young QB; he's an unusually young QB who has missed 80% of his work. Just something to consider.

You are right, but it's just another thing you have to throw onto the worry pile with McCarthy. Can he stay healthy or is he always going to be snakebit in that department? If you can't count on him to play well or stay healthy...then you have a major problem (which is what we have).

I'm hoping that facing another one of his draft peers will be a point of competitive focus for JJM. The kid has my sympathy, because our fan base is brutal with QBs, and nothing can prepare a 22 year old for his first playing time, fatherhood, and a string of bad showings that have tens of thousands of complete strangers calling him a bust or worse.

Maybe, just maybe, this past week's forced time off did help him and KOC to find his stride, again. All he really needs to do to get kinder press/reaction is look competent for some consecutive quarters/games. As much as his opponent tomorrow has raised the bar to insane heights, their record is worse than ours and this game has to be seen as an opportunity.

Can JJ McCarthy FINALLY be the QB that ends our every-offseason "who's throwing for Minnesota next season?" questions? If he can at least show good progress to close this season, he could break that cycle.

supafreak84 wrote:

You are right, but it's just another thing you have to throw onto the worry pile with McCarthy. Can he stay healthy or is he always going to be snakebit in that department? If you can't count on him to play well or stay healthy...then you have a major problem (which is what we have).

No doubt its a concern until it isn't. It may never go away, hope thats not the case. 

80% time missed over 1 and 3/4 seasons is about as snakebite as you can get.  

It was hard enough for this fanbase to have patience with a young qb, let alone adding that major missed time to his development curve.

I see the line has flipped on this one,  apparently Daniels is a 3 point swing.  Vikes were 1.5 point favs.  Not 1.5 point dogs.

BigAl99 wrote:

Why did they put him out there with the C on his jersey and the weight of the team on his shoulders at the beginning of the season?  Did they have no clue if he was ready?  Did they know or expect him be successful anyway.  What point was KOC making when He made the "Dirty Hands" analogy?  I thought he was saying that the collective would avoid putting him out there if he wasn't ready and adapting things to his needs.   In hindsight what was done competently to do that ?  Letting Jones walk without allowing him to compete, Sam Howell, Wentz?   At best they have been incompetent at worst too prideful and arrogant to develop a strategy to help him.  Don't get me wrong, I have bled purple for the duration of the team's existence, and this is the last place I wanted this team to be in.  I just see the Wilf org. using this team as a real estate marketing tool, they have built a Potemkin Village not a winning team.  .

They put him out there because they thought he was ready after a year in the system—a year of taking mental reps. The dirty hands comment was about teams who put QBs in before they’re ready and then give up on them too soon. I think the misjudgment on the Vikings part comes from putting too much weight in the mental reps and not enough in the actual ones. Or JJ could just be a bust.

Vikings weren’t able to sign Jones, Darnold or Rodgers because none would be handed the starting job. Each would be competing with McCarthy. As it turns out, all three would’ve beaten out McCarthy, but none of them knew that at the time. No matter, each was given a starting role (and money) elsewhere. That may seem like a massive error now, but I don’t remember too many people screaming about our failure to sign any of them.

But extending those errors in judgement to the Wilfs!? C’mon.

supafreak84 wrote:

Who wants average quarterback play? We are all beyond tired of average quarterback play and this team being a borderline playoff contenders without ever being real Super Bowl contenders. That's Wilf thinking right there and has done nothing for us. We are now praying for "average quarterback play" and hoping we can land Mac fucking Jones or Trevor Lawrence because McCarthy has been the worst quarterback in the league? Lol. What a spot to be in courtesy of ownership, the front office, and the coaching staff who has royally shit the bed this year (minus Flores).