Yeesh...
Sorry, but this is a GM issue
Sunday’s 26-0 loss at Seattle — the Vikings’ most humiliating defeat since last being shut out 34-0 by Green Bay 18 years ago — isn’t just a quarterback issue. It’s an overall general manager problem. Sustained success isn’t possible when your GM gets lapped by his peers annually in the draft.
Throwing $300 million at other teams’ aging free agents can’t replace building core starters and quality depth among players entering their prime at three to five years, or generally ages 23 to 26.
The Vikings have four players on their roster who were drafted three to five years ago — one from the last year under Rick Spielman (2021) and three from the first two years under Kwesi Adofo-Mensah (2022-23). Two are regular starters (Christian Darrisaw, Jordan Addison). Darrisaw didn’t play Sunday.
As for the rest of the NFC North, the Packers have 18 players and 12 starters who they drafted from 2021-23 while the Lions have 13 players and 11 starters, and the Bears have six players and five starters. Feel free to say, “Wow.”
Vikings among league’s most inconsistent
We tend to think of the Vikings as a proud, consistent franchise. Maybe we should amend that thinking as they fell to 4-8 and all but secured a 16th consecutive season of being unable to string two playoff years together.
Yep, the last time this team made the playoffs in consecutive seasons was 2008-09. Let’s measure the stink level of that amazingly consistent stretch of inconsistency. Since 2000, the Vikings have made the playoffs 10 times. That’s tied for ninth most. But they’ve put together consecutive playoff seasons only that one time.
They are one of only five teams with one or fewer streaks of fewer than three seasons of making the postseason since 2000. The others: Chicago, whose only streak was 2005-06, and Washington, Jacksonville and Cleveland — none of whom have reached the playoffs in back-to-back years since 2000. It’s come to this: The Vikings being mentioned in the same breath with, gulp, Cleveland.
How about a little star-power help for Brosmer?
Max Brosmer was awful on an undrafted rookie level of awfulness (although his 32.8 passer rating was only 1.4 lower than first-rounder J.J. McCarthy’s Lambeau Field debut debacle the week before). But he got no help in getting comfortable from his side of the ball.
How many times have we said, written and back-patted Justin Jefferson and Addison as one of the best receiving duos in football? Well, they let Brosmer down when he needed them to step up early and keep this game from becoming the joke that it became.
Brosmer was 4 for 4 for 26 yards and a first down when he dropped back to pass on second-and-9 from his 27. He threw a great ball 15 yards downfield that a wide-open Addison dropped. That came on the Vikings’ second possession and led to a second straight punt. Two possessions later, Brosmer was 6 of 9 for 46 yards and two first downs, and the Vikings trailed only 3-0. It was first-and-10 when Jefferson dropped a ball thrown to him a yard from the first down.
If Addison and Jefferson catch those two balls, Brosmer starts 8 of 10 for about 76 yards, and he’s a whole lot more comfortable than what he morphed into en route to completing 19 of 30 for 126 yards. Spread some of that blame around to the stars.
Seattle knew it was over at 10-0
It’s especially embarrassing for an NFL team to be down only 10-0 with over 31 minutes left and have its opponent start playing as if that lead is insurmountable.
How else can we explain Seahawks coach Mike Macdonald easing up and not bothering to use one of his three timeouts when his defense sacked Brosmer at the Vikings’ 24-yard line with 1:50 left in the first half? He allowed the Vikings to punt the ball at 1:12. Seattle then ran three plays from near midfield and waited another 13 seconds before Macdonald called his first timeout with 23 seconds left.
Probably fearing a Vikings’ defensive score more so than anything, Macdonald didn’t even try for a touchdown before settling for a 56-yard field goal and a 13-0 halftime lead.
STRIB
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
medaille wrote:
It's a KOC pile-on because the majority of our struggles were KOC decisions. It's a KOC pile-on because he's the QB whisperer and he's failing his QBs more than his QBs are failing him.
It's hard for KOC to call a game, because all the plays in the playbook they practiced are too hard for his QBs to run, and the simpler ones are probably ones they've practiced for the first time last week.
Which is exactly my point. San Francisco, who has been an absolute MASH unit this year with their plethora of injuries, ranks 11th in total offense and 3rd in third down conversion percentage. I don't want to hear all these excuses. If you are this supposed elite offensive mind, then why are we bottom of the league in almost every offensive catagory? We have skill position guys most rosters would die to have. The Jets....that's right, the Jets, have a higher ranked offense than this Vikings unit and its really a KOC problem
purplefaithful wrote:
The coach has been pretty transparent about his short-comings this year...
The biggest blunder was determining JJM was ready and letting Darnold and Jones walk. Hindsight is 20/20, but its an unforgivable error as its could set the team back years if McCarthy doesnt eventually "get it."
OTOH, the majority of fans are being too impatient with a QB thats barely played a 1/2 dozen games
The biggest blunder was taking an offense designed for Sam Darnolds skillset as a veteran and trying to apply it to a 21-22 year old who came from an offense that mostly just ran the ball. They didn't pick the wrong guy. They're just trying to force him to play a scheme that never made sense for him to play in year one and now they're changing everything midseason. I don't think there were any QBs in the draft class that would have made KOC look good, because he has been asking too much of them and not figuring out ways to have the veterans carry him.
I still think JJM is putting too much pressure on himself with this "9" alter ego nonsense. He has a history of mental health issues and relies heavily on meditation, prayer, therapy, etc. to calm himself. Not sure the hyper-charged "9" character is doing himself any favors. You want to slow the game down...not speed it up. 9 is certainly not doing me any favors living in Packerland. Everybody watched JJM's pregame interview (at least I think it was pregame...I was at the game so didn't watch on tv) describing his 9 character. My Packer friends mock me about 9 all the time now. God I hate the Packers.
I havent heard the "9" stuff in a while, it could be old news at this point - or at least something he'll keep more private from now on.
Who knows???
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
medaille wrote:
The biggest blunder was taking an offense designed for Sam Darnolds skillset as a veteran and trying to apply it to a 21-22 year old who came from an offense that mostly just ran the ball. They didn't pick the wrong guy. They're just trying to force him to play a scheme that never made sense for him to play in year one and now they're changing everything midseason. I don't think there were any QBs in the draft class that would have made KOC look good, because he has been asking too much of them and not figuring out ways to have the veterans carry him.
This is fair criticism for sure. And I agree, but it's still not nearly enough to fire a promising young head coach over. To me you hope it's a hard learning experience rather than start over with a new guy and then can him at the first big blunder too.
I see you're not calling for his head, I'm more directing that last bit at those who are.
Lots of ball left. For all our sakes let's just hope McCarthy can play some good football.
EDIT- And on the Nine/mental health stuff. If JJM wants to talk about those things every once in a while, I'll listen. But I can't say I'm super interested in being beaten over the head constantly by social media.
purplefaithful wrote:
I havent heard the "9" stuff in a while, it could be old news at this point - or at least something he'll keep more private from now on.
Who knows???
lol, the 'alter ego' thing with the curmudgeon crowd is hilarious. If you actually listen to the interview, JJ just says its a state of mind, his gameday persona if it had to be identified. Justin Jefferson said the same thing the next day that he does after being asked about it. You'd think he was Cybil, lmao.
But this board is full of crusty fucks from the Midwest, so lets fold those arms and get ready for cloud yelling range. If he's winning, its gone with the wind. When you play like shit and lose, its fodder for the social media machine. I've even seen some fans worry about him being made fun of online, which is hilarious. Every single player in every single sport has been roasted online. The trolls, either real or bots, consume the social media landscape.
JimmyinSD wrote:
Where did i say that, he was the only QB we had play this week... for fucks sake, if you want to look for fights all the time, go somewhere else, not worth the time.
I'm not looking for a fight. Especially with you. I am just saying that the game plans that have been for JJ have been for seasoned guys. Not a 22 year old. KOC has finally admitted that in so many words. Time to play and adjust around a young guy since you don't have a Matthew Stafford.
purplefaithful wrote:
I havent heard the "9" stuff in a while, it could be old news at this point - or at least something he'll keep more private from now on.Who knows???
pattersaur wrote:
This is fair criticism for sure. And I agree, but it's still not nearly enough to fire a promising young head coach over. To me you hope it's a hard learning experience rather than start over with a new guy and then can him at the first big blunder too.
I see you're not calling for his head, I'm more directing that last bit at those who are.
Lots of ball left. For all our sakes let's just hope McCarthy can play some good football.
EDIT- And on the Nine/mental health stuff. If JJM wants to talk about those things every once in a while, I'll listen. But I can't say I'm super interested in being beaten over the head constantly by social media.
Yeah, I'm definitely on the keeping KOC train ... for now. I think he'd still be a successful coach for us, even if he didn't learn and grow from this, if he was just more selectful in picking who his QB was. Like if he just goes out and picks whatever the best mid-QB from the FA market, we're probably borderline playoffs most years.
I still think McCarthy will turn it around. I think he's smart. I think he's motivated to be a winner. I think he takes direction. I don't think he has any traits that look like a guy that will be a permanent failure. I think it's just going to take time to solidify. I think he'll make KOC a winner even if KOC doesn't make his offense into the one I'd love to see, which is multiple, resilient to defenses taking away his best stuff, and can run the ball with authority when the game requires it.
I'm not certain KOC will change. He's seemed pretty set in forcing everyone to play his offense. He's had like 2 games in his Vikings tenure where he was able to commit to running the ball. He's perennially trying to be too cute instead of just beating the other team, even when that would be more likely. I'm just not sure he can reverse his tendencies. I think the best course of action for him would be to bring in a more experienced OC than Phillips and create a hybrid offense that marries the best of KOC's play designs with the best of the new OC's play designs, and let the OC call plays and let KOC focus on HC stuff. Just go find a guy that can fill in the gaps on what KOC struggles with. But I can see KOC wearing thin over the 2026 season if he keeps forcing his weaknesses onto games and we're losing because of them.
medaille wrote:
The biggest blunder was taking an offense designed for Sam Darnolds skillset as a veteran and trying to apply it to a 21-22 year old who came from an offense that mostly just ran the ball. They didn't pick the wrong guy. They're just trying to force him to play a scheme that never made sense for him to play in year one and now they're changing everything midseason. I don't think there were any QBs in the draft class that would have made KOC look good, because he has been asking too much of them and not figuring out ways to have the veterans carry him.
Exactly. From the JJ Symptom Free thread,
Coaches have already toned down gameplans to help McCarthy and Brosmer, ranging from easier cadences at the line of scrimmage to fewer formations and personnel groupings.O’Connell said he believes a simpler approach could “lead to a little bit more rhythm and timing to our pass game.”
Watching Shadeur throw an occasional TD, watching Dart throw some quick slants, I just wonder why we can't do that?
supafreak84 wrote:
Which is exactly my point. San Francisco, who has been an absolute MASH unit this year with their plethora of injuries, ranks 11th in total offense and 3rd in third down conversion percentage. I don't want to hear all these excuses. If you are this supposed elite offensive mind, then why are we bottom of the league in almost every offensive catagory? We have skill position guys most rosters would die to have. The Jets....that's right, the Jets, have a higher ranked offense than this Vikings unit and its really a KOC problem
Letting Darnold go to Seattle for 100 Mil was absolutely the right decision. They tried with Jones, but he didn't want to compete with JJ. Not sure what they should have done other than not sign a dufus vet that didn't fit the offense. Should have had some real competition for JJ all offseason.
greediron wrote:
Exactly. From the JJ Symptom Free thread,
Watching Shadeur throw an occasional TD, watching Dart throw some quick slants, I just wonder why we can't do that?
Letting Darnold go to Seattle for 100 Mil was absolutely the right decision. They tried with Jones, but he didn't want to compete with JJ. Not sure what they should have done other than not sign a dufus vet that didn't fit the offense. Should have had some real competition for JJ all offseason.
I cannot argue the Darnold question. We all watched him fold like a tent when the games got VERY IMPORTANT!
Chuckf wrote:
I cannot argue the Darnold question. We all watched him fold like a tent when the games got VERY IMPORTANT!
He sure didnt impress me last week to boot.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
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