Message to the Wilfs...

mblack wrote:
So what happened the last few years is due to luck and not the work of the coaches but this year it’s due to the coaches? OK. I get people being upset and pissed (I am too) but damn!

Yeah KO "lucked into" a couple good years... he's only been here for 3.5 lol

pattersaur wrote:

Yeah KO "lucked into" a couple good years... he's only been here for 3.5 lol

I think KO has proven his offense can work with a veteran quarterback that can run the type of offense he wants ran. Cousins was able to execute it before the injury. Darnold was able to execute last season before he fell apart in the last two games. Wentz was able to execute it to an extent despute only being here a month. That's why I was surprised we didn't jump on Aaron Rodgers when we could have and instead threw all our eggs in the JJ McCarthy basket. Like, how bad does that decision look now and was this a KOC call? He's the "expert" so you'd think the organization would have deferred to him in the drafting of McCarthy and then the decision to hand him over the keys and make it his show.

supafreak84 wrote:

I think KO has proven his offense can work with a veteran quarterback that can run the type of offense he wants ran. Cousins was able to execute it before the injury. Darnold was able to execute last season before he fell apart in the last two games. Wentz was able to execute it to an extent despute only being here a month. That's why I was surprised we didn't jump on Aaron Rodgers when we could have and instead threw all our eggs in the JJ McCarthy basket. Like, how bad does that decision look now and was this a KOC call? He's the "expert" so you'd think the organization would have deferred to him in the drafting of McCarthy and then the decision to hand him over the keys and make it his show.

I think they clearly mis-read the tea leaves with JJM. I wouldnt have expected them to be this far off on it. 

Those are discussions they have to have with ownership when 2025 mercifully comes to an end. 

It is what it is now, gotta look ahead.

Bullazin wrote:
This thread has delivered a lot of laughs.

Not nearly as many laughs as the Vikings have delivered on the field, funny boy.

purplefaithful wrote:

I think they clearly mis-read the tea leaves with JJM. I wouldnt have expected them to be this far off on it. 

Those are discussions they have to have with ownership when 2025 mercifully comes to an end. 

It is what it is now, gotta look ahead.

Which scares me going forward. If they so badly missed on McCarthy and fooled themselves into handing him over the reigns, what makes anybody think Kwesi, KOC and company are even capable of ever getting the long term solution at quarterback correct? We already know the deficiencies we have in scouting and with the GM. If KOC is getting fooled, how do we ever get that right?

I don’t think that KOC is great and JJM is shit and JJM is the sole thing holding the team back.

I think KOC either doesn’t actively know how to develop a low experience QB and whatever he’s been successful at in the past has been developing guys that already have a certain level of experience, or he dramatically over-estimated what JJM had already locked in, and put way too much on his plate for this year, and is now drowning JJM with an offense that is complicated even for veterans.

I think in reality it’s probably a little bit of both. By all accounts he’s looked pretty decent in practice, and KOC is surprised it isn’t translating onto the field. I think it was a huge mistake to give JJM the whole offense from the get go. I think it was a huge mistake to not give him more reps in the preseason. I think we got to the point where it wasn’t working, and now every week he’s changing different things, so JJM is kind of starting at week one every week instead of making progress on a good plan that hasn’t needed to change the whole time. But where is the evidence that KOC knows how to build up a rookie QB and why did we bring in McCown fresh after he failed Young?

I still like JJM. I think he’ll figure it out. I just don’t think our plan for this year was good and our attempts at fixing it have been worse.

supafreak84 wrote:

Which scares me going forward. If they so badly missed on McCarthy and fooled themselves into handing him over the reigns, what makes anybody think Kwesi, KOC and company are even capable of ever getting the long term solution at quarterback correct? We already know the deficiencies we have in scouting and with the GM. If KOC is getting fooled, how do we ever get that right?

The play calling and system (with this surround) has already proven itself to be solid with KC and Darnold. 

They get someone competent at QB and they'll automatically have a top 10 offense...I expect them to improve at RB and TE moving forward too.

purplefaithful wrote:

The play calling and system (with this surround) has already proven itself to be solid with KC and Darnold. 

They get someone competent at QB and they'll automatically have a top 10 offense...I expect them to improve at RB and TE moving forward too.

The Vikings haven’t really had a top offense any of the years that KOC has been in charge.  I’d say they’re closer to upper middle (which while technically is right around top 10, I feel is a sizeable distance away from the top offenses in the league).  That said, we have upgraded our Oline quite a bit, so the expectations should be higher.  I just think that KOC has done his one thing really well, but he hasn’t really proven that he can do anything different if the other team takes away the one thing he does well.  It’s probably unreasonable to expect him to prove that with a rookie QB.  His lack of commitment to the run and his failure to really develop a workable alternate passing scheme that works either with lesser QBs or when defenses are taking his normal scheme away are still massive open questions.

In this year of rookie and backup QBs and while bringing in more capable Oline, and bringing in a 1B RB to go with our 1A RB, we’re still bottom 3 in terms of rushing attempts, bottom 10 in terms of rushing yardage and rushing TDs, while being top 10 in YPA.

That said, I totally agree that with our Oline and with our skill position players, we really should be a top 3 offense with a legit good QB and a top 5-6 offense with an upper mid QB like Cousins, Darnold, etc.

Maybe KOC, underestimated the skill difference between college and pro qbs

BigAl99 wrote:
Maybe KOC, underestimated the skill difference between college and pro qbs

Being that he was a college and pro quarterback himself, I'd think that to be unlikely

StickierBuns wrote:

Minnesota had -1 net yards of offense in the second half. How much do we blame JJM for that....90%? More? Having Darrisaw and Jackson go out wasn't ideal, but I've stopped blaming the O-line now. 

I can say now this would be a pretty good team with competent QB play. Superbowl level? Still no IMO, but a playoff team I believe. You just aren't going to win games throwing for 87 yards and 2 INTs as your baseline. I mean Love didn't knock it out of the park either but we've seen more than enough games already in JJ's career where he's thrown for less than 100 yards or around that.

At the bold. What happened to the running game? Yeah KOC moved away from it but this team's issues on offense start and end with the Oline

supafreak84 wrote:

Being that he was a college and pro quarterback himself, I'd think that to be unlikely

But he only coached in the pro's.  His player stats are 4 of 6 for 23 yards.  So he wasn't too successful with his transition.

BigAl99 wrote:

But he only coached in the pro's.  His player stats are 4 of 6 for 23 yards.  So he wasn't too successful with his transition.

Yes but you'd think with his overall background, that if anybody had the experience to be able to identify a college quarterback who could make a successful transition to the pros...it would be him. Hiw many years did he sit behind Brady? I found the Sam Howell thing hugely perplexing and a red flag.  The only other quarterback we've drafted was Jaren Hall, who was awful. Now McCarthy is doing his best Christian Ponder impression which leads me to believe that maybe KOC doesn't know any more than any of us in identifying young quarterback talent.

supafreak84 wrote:

Yes but you'd think with his overall background, that if anybody had the experience to be able to identify a college quarterback who could make a successful transition to the pros...it would be him. Hiw many years did he sit behind Brady? I found the Sam Howell thing hugely perplexing and a red flag.  The only other quarterback we've drafted was Jaren Hall, who was awful. Now McCarthy is doing his best Christian Ponder impression which leads me to believe that maybe KOC doesn't know any more than any of us in identifying young quarterback talent.

In 2015 he was QB coach in Cleveland and they drafted Johnny Manziel.  The only other QBs drafted where he was either QB coach, OC or assistant were Washington, Dwayne Haskins and SF, Jeff Driskell.  He played 1 year in NE.  He has way more experienced than me and was definitely a better player, but how that translates to picking young QBs, who knows, He's still a young coach.  The whisperer reputation thing may be something he never corrected when it got brought up.

BigAl99 wrote:
Maybe KOC, underestimated the skill difference between college and pro qbs

supafreak84 wrote:

Being that he was a college and pro quarterback himself, I'd think that to be unlikely

TO be fair, KOC did want Maye by all accounts...Obviously he thought he could get JJM over the hump to play on Sundays. 

He talked himself and the org into it.

purplefaithful wrote:

TO be fair, KOC did want Maye by all accounts...Obviously he thought he could get JJM over the hump to play on Sundays. 

He talked himself and the org into it.

He was never going to get Maye with the way the top of the draft unfolded. He could have taken Nix though, instead Sean Payton played us and laughed doing it...now we know why

supafreak84 wrote:

He was never going to get Maye with the way the top of the draft unfolded. He could have taken Nix though, instead Sean Payton played us and laughed doing it...now we know why

I wanted JJM over Nix at the time...

I really wanted Daniels, but that was even less of a possibility than Maye. And now Daniels' concerns are coming home to roost just as they are for Penix. 

I dont know what Nix's ceiling is, so not sure how smug Payton will be when the dust settles on these young QBs. Certainly hard to argue that its less than McCarthys right now. 

Really pains me to type that too. I like McCarthy and I hate Sean Payton.

comet52 wrote:

Not nearly as many laughs as the Vikings have delivered on the field, funny boy.

You are so cute. Yes I have celebrated the winning culture we have since we brought in the current leadership and I won’t be partaking in the madness that is trying to wean a 22 yo QB, but carry on with the crazy.

comet52 wrote:

Not nearly as many laughs as the Vikings have delivered on the field, funny boy.

You are so cute

Bullazin wrote:

You are so cute. Yes I have celebrated the winning culture we have since we brought in the current leadership and I won’t be partaking in the madness that is trying to wean a 22 yo QB, but carry on with the crazy.

You are so cute

Yes I've enjoyed those playoff wins and draft day victories myself. This front office and their winning culture have been awesome. Making all the right moves. We are a lucky fanbase

Bullazin wrote:

You are so cute. Yes I have celebrated the winning culture we have since we brought in the current leadership and I won’t be partaking in the madness that is trying to wean a 22 yo QB, but carry on with the crazy.

You are so cute

Once was nice.  Twice...are asking me for a date?  Soft music and candlelight would be my preference. ;)

I think this team is on the verge of several 3-5 win seasons.  But I could be wrong.

Not a winning org as I see it but we disagree.  Nothing personal buddy.  Have a good day!