What a disaster-class of a game by KOC.

medaille wrote:
What a disaster-class of a game by KOC.  Obviously, it was a mess of a game overall, but I think KOC could have won this game if he called a better game, and at this point in time he should know better (as opposed to JJM, who’s in his 4th game).  It felt like we were playing some high end defense and KOC knew our only chance to win was to make a couple 45 yard TD passes that score in one shot.  When in the real world, we’re playing a defense that is struggling a lot and didn’t put pressure on us at all.

There should be no coach who asks his rookie QB to throw that many times, especially in a game that was close the whole time.  I feel like what was clearly missing was consistency in calling the run game and easy passes.  Aaron Jones ran for 5 ypc, Mason for near 6, JJM for almost 10.  We had 13 rushes by the RBs.  Is there a bigger WTF, than our complete lack of rushing the ball?  It felt like every pass thrown was a high difficulty pass and every pass took like 4 seconds for the receivers to run 20 yards down the field.  What was the point of that?  At some point in the game, JJM is overthrowing every receiver.  Why not introduce some confidence boosting throws into the mix, ones that didn’t need to be rocketed all the way across the field?  Regarding the false starts.  Clearly there was some miscommunication thing happening.  It didn’t appear to me that anyone was making any effort to figure out what was going on and trying to address it midgame.  I kind of feel like any of the veteran players could probably point out to JJM and KOC, what was going wrong, and what JJM needed to fix to stop having that issue.

Overall, it felt like we were being way to cute and unnecessarily complex and beat ourselves, when we could have just gone out there ran a basic bare bones offense and come away with a victory.

Also, we’re 1-3 at home with none of our home losses looking like a remotely functional team.

I think we’re close to the point where KOC should take a break from playcalling for a period of time.  KOC repeatedly calls plays that his team can’t execute and he needs to figure out why he does that and how to stop doing that.  It’s clearly a personal flaw of his, and his lack of awareness that this is happening, and the lack of adjustments is holding our team back.  Let someone else call the game, who will actually call a run play.  Focus on ensuring the team is executing at a high level.

I definitely wish the Vikings would run more. I’m sure the YPC will dip as teams adjust but overall it’d be helpful. It’s weird we don’t. 

Having said that, I am okay with them putting running restrictions on JJM. I have no clue whether they are or not but he’s missed a ton of time and needs to stay healthy to develop as a passer. The wheels are still there if he needs them but I’d rather see him handing the ball off or making on time throws than scrambling.

Felt like maybe KO put too much onto JJMs plate this week and that manifested in false starts and overthrows. Next week hopefully we get the Good Vikings and the offense is more focused.

I know this is contrary to popular opinion, but I'm just not sold on KOC as a head coach. Made the playoffs year one on Zimmers roster then proceeded to get bitch slapped at home versus a Danny Dimes led Giants team. Had a couple lean years due to injuries before catching lightning in a bottle last year with Darnold before playing our absolute worst in the two biggest games of the year and getting blown out in both, with his playcalling being a factor in both.

I said at the time that I thought bringing in Harbaugh was a no brainer hire for this franchise. Unfortunately a green, supposedly smart man who's been navigating draft busts for four years decided KOC was the right man for the job. Four years later, hows this decision looking?

42 attempts was mind-boggling...

The whole scheme just seems too complex for a rook imo

I like KOC as a HC, but for his own good he should have an OC calling the plays - and not Bum Phillips grandkid.

medaille wrote:
What a disaster-class of a game by KOC.  Obviously, it was a mess of a game overall, but I think KOC could have won this game if he called a better game, and at this point in time he should know better (as opposed to JJM, who’s in his 4th game).  It felt like we were playing some high end defense and KOC knew our only chance to win was to make a couple 45 yard TD passes that score in one shot.  When in the real world, we’re playing a defense that is struggling a lot and didn’t put pressure on us at all.

There should be no coach who asks his rookie QB to throw that many times, especially in a game that was close the whole time.  I feel like what was clearly missing was consistency in calling the run game and easy passes.  Aaron Jones ran for 5 ypc, Mason for near 6, JJM for almost 10.  We had 13 rushes by the RBs.  Is there a bigger WTF, than our complete lack of rushing the ball?  It felt like every pass thrown was a high difficulty pass and every pass took like 4 seconds for the receivers to run 20 yards down the field.  What was the point of that?  At some point in the game, JJM is overthrowing every receiver.  Why not introduce some confidence boosting throws into the mix, ones that didn’t need to be rocketed all the way across the field?  Regarding the false starts.  Clearly there was some miscommunication thing happening.  It didn’t appear to me that anyone was making any effort to figure out what was going on and trying to address it midgame.  I kind of feel like any of the veteran players could probably point out to JJM and KOC, what was going wrong, and what JJM needed to fix to stop having that issue.

Overall, it felt like we were being way to cute and unnecessarily complex and beat ourselves, when we could have just gone out there ran a basic bare bones offense and come away with a victory.

Also, we’re 1-3 at home with none of our home losses looking like a remotely functional team.

I think we’re close to the point where KOC should take a break from playcalling for a period of time.  KOC repeatedly calls plays that his team can’t execute and he needs to figure out why he does that and how to stop doing that.  It’s clearly a personal flaw of his, and his lack of awareness that this is happening, and the lack of adjustments is holding our team back.  Let someone else call the game, who will actually call a run play.  Focus on ensuring the team is executing at a high level.

I have no problem with his play calling yesterday.  We ran the ball well on 1st down, I like having Ham back.  I absolutely have no issue with taking the shot on 3rd and 1.  One on one with Jets on the outside, I love that call.  That is a dagger if you hit it.

The biggest issue I have is the cadence with JJ and the offense.  Not sure if something changed, or if we were just trying to get the Raven's offsides, or maybe this was the first time in a long time that JJ started at home and the line heard the cadence.  But something was off, either JJ needed to adjust or the team needed to settle down.  If we were trying hard counts, stop doing that.  The 8 false starts was a killer.

greediron wrote:
I have no problem with his play calling yesterday.  We ran the ball well on 1st down, I like having Ham back.  I absolutely have no issue with taking the shot on 3rd and 1.  One on one with Jets on the outside, I love that call.  That is a dagger if you hit it.

The biggest issue I have is the cadence with JJ and the offense.  Not sure if something changed, or if we were just trying to get the Raven's offsides, or maybe this was the first time in a long time that JJ started at home and the line heard the cadence.  But something was off, either JJ needed to adjust or the team needed to settle down.  If we were trying hard counts, stop doing that.  The 8 false starts was a killer.

This is the loudest I have heard JJ in his cadence. I kind of wondered if nine showed up instead of normal JJ!

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

This is the loudest I have heard JJ in his cadence. I kind of wondered if nine showed up instead of normal JJ!

I wonder that as well.  Did he add volume/intensity?  Or was it the first time he has played at home in a long time and the team wasn't ready for it?  Whatever the issue, it needs to be resolved.

purplefaithful wrote:
42 attempts was mind-boggling...

The whole scheme just seems too complex for a rook imo

I like KOC as a HC, but for his own good he should have an OC calling the plays - and not Bum Phillips grandkid.

Keep it simple. I don't understand why they went away from the run game because it was working. It doesn't have to be all splash plays, sustain drives and move the chains

He talks his hot air about organizations failing qb's but at this point it might start to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. 42-13 pass/run ratio in a game where you were running effectively is a failure by the HC. JJM started out ok and then turned into Zach Wilson, throwing balls everywhere but into the arms of open targets. His HC did little or nothing to mitigate this or help or call a game that would help the kid.

KOC's 3rd down run/pass split stats are mind boggling. We have 3x the success rate when we run and we pass 3x as often as we run. It's the definition of stupid. And it doesn't do anything to support a young qb by building success with simple executable options instead of dialing up this constant complex downfield game that is very hit or miss, exposes the qb to too many hits, and gasses the D by failing to convert makeable 3rd and shorts.

Add to this the oline issues - guys who leave get better (Ed Ingram for one) and guys who come here regress. Special teams is another area that is falling short. Price has had so many great returns killed by penalties this year. And frankly a team that is sloppy and taking penalties with a coach who goes to the podium to apologize and announce he's fixing things but then you see the same things on the field year after year is a team being coach by Les Frazier. Ok maybe that's harsh but that is how it feels to me lately.

I still think KOC is a good coach, but this year isn’t his best year. I’m not sure what’s going on, maybe his wife told him to spend more time at home. Maybe everyone is too injured and is getting rest days instead of practicing, or maybe there’s just too many holes in JJM’s young game, and you spend time focusing on one issue, and another bad habit re-emerges. I’m sure that when JJM eventually settles in, KOC’s style of calling the offense will be fine … most of the time. He absolutely needs to develop something in him that loves running the ball and he needs to figure out how to work with what he’s got. If you can’t call a run play when you’re getting 5.5 ypc, you’re making everything so much tougher on yourself. This is the NFL. You have to run the ball sometimes, and sometimes the NFL takes away your best stuff, so you have to fall back on some other thing, and that’s just not happening with KOC.

All the penalties put us in long down situations and the turnovers put behind on the scoreboard, so understand why we threw so much. It was really poor execution, the plays were there to be made, WRs were wide open, just missing a lot of poor throws. You are not going to win when completing less than 50% of your passes. Just a few plays could have turned the game around.

KOC's play calling could be much better if JJ could deliver the ball. He has shown that he can at times, but not so much yet.
It's going to be up and down the rest of this year, but I still expect it to be up by the end of the season. This team isn't a bad team, it has just underperformed. Hopefully JJ will get some experience and they will gather it up and make a run next season. If not. we will be right back where Vikings fans seem to be year after year.