We're on to Detroit...

If we have two health OT's back? They have enough firepower to at least not get embarrassed on offense. At this point I just want to keep JJM upright and be competitive.

The D? I cant figure them out but I think the league has. As has already been said, they look old and slow.

These guys either have enough professional pride or they don't. If they don't? This could be a 45/6 s hit show.

I feel like we're right at the seasons x-roads at 3/4. Next couple games are going to decide if we're a bottom feeder or not.

I know we got major injuries, but something is way off in Eagan...As the local scribes printed over the weekend; the reality on the field vs the plan on paper is as big a difference as Ive seen in a long while.

This is on the entire org.

This is a wicked litmus test for JJM, and a reality check for KOC. Both of them have to see this game as the tone-setter for the rest of the season.

Against Detroit, our young'un can't have just a "good quarter" to keep us in the contest...he'll need to live up to the expectations that we're still holding him to. He's 1-1 in actual games, now, and is hardly anything like a "bust"...but, he's got to stay functional and show what all the learning and coaching have given him.

KOC...wow, I'm hating how much I'm worried for him. His manner at press conferences is showing the mileage, his game calling isn't getting any better, and it seems impossible that the Coach of the Year and Quarterback Whisperer can't dial up quick slants and the like...even when his QBs are getting maimed.

There's a LOT to unpack on Sunday.

Will KOC commit to the run?
Can we run enough to set up play action?

If those 2 don’t happen we are in for rough day as I don’t think throwing 45 times will lead to success unless JJM becomes John Elway this week. 

If I’m game planning I take Gibbs out and make them beat us deep, similar plan we had vs Philly.

Hard to say it this early in the season, but if we have any hope of doing anything in the division this year then this is a must-win game for us. Certainly not a favorable position to be in

We really need Van Ginkel back. The defense isn't as good without him on the field this season.

We'll need both Darrisaw and O'Neill back as well to give JJ a chance to do something.

Pretty sure this will be a loss since Detroit is good and more experienced than us... but it's the NFL and there are upsets every week.

People need to not take this game too seriously. We’re probably going to lose this game. I think this game is more about taking positive steps forward in developing JJM and in fixing the defense. Neither of which, are likely going to go from zero to hero in one game against one of the best teams in the league. I know everyone is bored, because we haven’t seen JJM in a while, but this absolutely isn’t a litmus test on him. You can’t have a litmus test on a guy who’s playing his 3rd game. It is a litmus test on KOC. Can he put together a gameplan that doesn’t get his QB murdered? That would be a solid start. I’m not sure if it would really be fair to say that this is a litmus test for Flores. It’ll be interesting to see if he can get the defense playing good ball or if Allen/Hargrave are just washed and there’s nothing he can do about it. I kind of think, we’re just going to struggle against any team that can run the ball well, unless we start putting points up on offense consistently. We’re just not built to be playing close, low scoring games, and everything up until now has suggested that we don’t have the personnel to defend both the run and pass at the same time, and have to cheat in either direction. I don’t know how to solve that problem against a very multiple offense. If I had to guess, I would be trying to have creative, but gap sound run blitzes. I don’t think we necessarily need to abandon trying to pressure the QB, but we need to develop gap soundness first and work from there, especially with the Ravens coming up.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
We really need Van Ginkel back.  The defense isn't as good without him on the field this season.

We'll need both Darrisaw and O'Neill back as well to give JJ a chance to do something.

Pretty sure this will be a loss since Detroit is good and more experienced than us...  but it's the NFL and there are upsets every week.

I won't feel better about where we are offensively until Ryan Kelly is snapping the ball to a completely healthy JJ McCarthy, with Darrisaw, Jackson, Fries and O'Neill all healthy and starting as well. Y'know, the way we drew it up. lol

Van Ginkel is obviously a big part of what Flores does, so getting him back will help. I just think the problems on that side of the ball seem a little more futile, with neither Allen or Hargrave playing up to expectations, and weaknesses at ILB and Strong Safety. Those three positions are key to stopping the run and all three have been mostly bad.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment here...Nothing is going to get decided with one game and 10 to go.

But an "arrow-up" on JJM (and a couple other disappointing elements) would be hopeful.

45-9 Detroit

MaroonBells wrote:

I won't feel better about where we are offensively until Ryan Kelly is snapping the ball to a completely healthy JJ McCarthy, with Darrisaw, Jackson, Fries and O'Neill all healthy and starting as well. Y'know, the way we drew it up. lol

Van Ginkel is obviously a big part of what Flores does, so getting him back will help. I just think the problems on that side of the ball seem a little more futile, with neither Allen or Hargrave playing up to expectations, and weaknesses at ILB and Strong Safety. Those three positions are key to stopping the run and all three have been mostly bad.

Yep, I think I saw it here or read it somewhere recently...  We haven't had a single snap all season with Darrisaw, Jackson, Kelly, Fries, and O'Neill starting.  That's crazy and definitely not how we drew it up this off-season.

Allen and Hargave have probably been good locker room culture guys, but it's getting harder to support they were worth the money.  Redmond and LDR have shown way more flashes and impact plays.  I wouldn't be surprised if we cut bait on both to save some cap in the offseason.

One of the players I'm most surprised about is Ivan Pace.  He was an ascending player who was a strong tackler and blitzer and now he's not doing either well.  Hard to figure out what the issue is there...

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Yep, I think I saw it here or read it somewhere recently...  We haven't had a single snap all season with Darrisaw, Jackson, Kelly, Fries, and O'Neill starting.  That's crazy and definitely not how we drew it up this off-season.

Allen and Hargave have probably been good locker room culture guys, but it's getting harder to support they were worth the money.  Redmond and LDR have shown way more flashes and impact plays.  I wouldn't be surprised if we cut bait on both to save some cap in the offseason.

One of the players I'm most surprised about is Ivan Pace.  He was an ascending player who was a strong tackler and blitzer and now he's not doing either well.  Hard to figure out what the issue is there...

Hargrave I think will be gone, lesser dead money...Allen would be much harder (financially) to part with.

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Yep, I think I saw it here or read it somewhere recently...  We haven't had a single snap all season with Darrisaw, Jackson, Kelly, Fries, and O'Neill starting.  That's crazy and definitely not how we drew it up this off-season.

Allen and Hargave have probably been good locker room culture guys, but it's getting harder to support they were worth the money.  Redmond and LDR have shown way more flashes and impact plays.  I wouldn't be surprised if we cut bait on both to save some cap in the offseason.

One of the players I'm most surprised about is Ivan Pace.  He was an ascending player who was a strong tackler and blitzer and now he's not doing either well.  Hard to figure out what the issue is there...

Pace is very undisciplined and his lack of stature is clearly showing up during plays, vs Atlanta he could NOT bring Robinson down by himself, I remember two plays where he had him dead to rights in the backfield and Robinson just shook him off and went for really good gains.   I could see Pace as a special teams demon and perhaps a situational player but he is NOT an every down player at all.

Allen & Hargrave prepare for Detroit… :@

Meanwhile in Detroit they appear ready to feast on them…. :P

MAD GAINZ wrote:

Yep, I think I saw it here or read it somewhere recently...  We haven't had a single snap all season with Darrisaw, Jackson, Kelly, Fries, and O'Neill starting.  That's crazy and definitely not how we drew it up this off-season.

Allen and Hargave have probably been good locker room culture guys, but it's getting harder to support they were worth the money.  Redmond and LDR have shown way more flashes and impact plays.  I wouldn't be surprised if we cut bait on both to save some cap in the offseason.

One of the players I'm most surprised about is Ivan Pace.  He was an ascending player who was a strong tackler and blitzer and now he's not doing either well.  Hard to figure out what the issue is there...

Allen and Hargrave are Pro Bowl level players, neither of whom are particularly old. If you would've told me that Allen and Hargrave would not be an appreciable upgrade over Bullard and Tillery, I'd tell you to go pee in a cup. 

I don't know what their problem is. They've been completely healthy as far as I know. It could be about their fit in a Flores defense. Either way, we may want a little patience there. 

I tend to think Pace, if he's allowed to freelance and just go 1000%, can be a real weapon behind the line of scrimmage. But as soon as you give him more responsibility and require him to play disciplined football and mind his gaps, which is what happens when Cashman goes down, he's not the same player.

My thoughts? Doom and Gloom...See this game as the nail in the coffin for the season. JJM will struggle (rightfully so) and Vikings will get smoked. Several players will just go through the motions knowing what lies ahead. I think the combination of KAM's terrible drafting, FA not staying healthy or under performing and QB decision have set them back. Familiar place for a Vikings fan. Brosmer will see the field before EOS

MaroonBells wrote:

I won't feel better about where we are offensively until Ryan Kelly is snapping the ball to a completely healthy JJ McCarthy, with Darrisaw, Jackson, Fries and O'Neill all healthy and starting as well. Y'know, the way we drew it up. lol

Van Ginkel is obviously a big part of what Flores does, so getting him back will help. I just think the problems on that side of the ball seem a little more futile, with neither Allen or Hargrave playing up to expectations, and weaknesses at ILB and Strong Safety. Those three positions are key to stopping the run and all three have been mostly bad.

If we even do get AVG back this season. Lose a few more games while his neck heals and they could very well shut him down.

Chuckf wrote:
45-9 Detroit

Back to the scene where it all went North last year, last reg season game for #1 seed.

Lions had 4th stringer defense in, and this happened

They got banged up secondary again (as of last game).  

NOT hopeful.  

Maybe Odin will use this game to reverse present fortunes this yr.  (Why do I do this?!)

purplefaithful wrote:

Hargrave I think will be gone, lesser dead money...Allen would be much harder (financially) to part with.

Hargrave, Harry, Hockenson, Jones and Theilen are all getting cut or retiring.

AGRforever wrote:

Hargrave, Harry, Hockenson, Jones and Theilen are all getting cut or retiring.

Until we cut the guy making the decisions, it doesn't matter. He's proven his ineptitude

supafreak84 wrote:

Until we cut the guy making the decisions, it doesn't matter. He's proven his ineptitude

I wont give him credit or bash him for free agency,  we really dont know what he is being told by the coaches, and honestly its really just an auction,  however the draft day decisions have got to be weighed heavily and IMO he has grossly underperformed in this area and him still sticking with the same group to advise him... just begs to be questioned...or dismissed.