OT: On This We Agree

Not the time or place? I’ve heard that before. Typically after a school has been shot up. 

Like the orange shitstain said previously, we have to move passed this, amirite?

I’m good with one less fascist in the world. Hopefully more to come. Anything to distract from the Epstein files.

JustInTime wrote:
A few gun deaths a year is the price we pay for the second amendment.

I think the best way we can honor Charlie Kirk is to not give a fuck over his death. After all, empathy is a made up, woke word.

If you don’t like being called a fascist, maybe don’t vote for people who construct concentration camps, vilify minorities and women, and send the national guard to occupy our nation’s capitol. 

It would probably also be wise as a Christian not to support pedophiles. I’m thinking judgement day is going to be really uncomfortable for a lot of you “Christians”

Sorry to put this here, but as I’ve been denied access to the proper forum, this remains my only option.

P. S

Man, did I nail down a lot of the rookies in this class!

Might as well show completely what you’re all about dude.  Loathsome, ridiculous, and 100% the kind of individual that has led us to this point.  All I can do is pray for your soul as it is truly lost. Just know that it's pity, not anger you're getting from people who actually have their shit together and realize how horrific the deaths of all innocent people are, not just the ones that fit their narrative. So many damaged people are out there in need of help. Those justifying this assassination need to move to the front of the line because they'll be the ones facilitating the next ones.

The temp has to be turned down in this country politically, or this will simply continue.

I dont care who's sleeping in the white house, this has to start at the top of the political world with Potus. Then the Speaker, The whip, The Governors and others in both parties need to echo the sentiment and fall in line like good soldiers.

How many more Kirks and Hortmans need to be gunned down and families left to visit graves?

Wherever you are on the political spectrum, this should be what we demand of elected leaders now more than ever.

Are you going to hold your breath about it? Or hold those "in charge" accountable to change the narrative in the country?

purplefaithful wrote:
The temp has to be turned down in this country politically, or this will simply continue.

I dont care who's sleeping in the white house, this has to start at the top of the political world with Potus. Then the Speaker, The whip, The Governors and others in both parties need to echo the sentiment and fall in line like good soldiers.

How many more Kirks and Hortmans need to be gunned down and families left to visit graves?

Wherever you are on the political spectrum, this should be what we demand of elected leaders now more than ever.

Are you going to hold your breath about it? Or hold those "in charge" accountable to change the narrative in the country?

As I’ve said, my firm belief is that the violent rhetoric stems from the leadership on one side, not the other.  Does Trump call Rosie fat and Joe sleepy and incompetent? Yes.  That’s far different than labeling Trump and all of his supporters as fascists and nazis. There is no justification to kill fat or lazy people coming out of Trumps words. There’s no justification whatsoever.  Is it childish or mean at times? Yes. Is it dangerous in and of itself?  No.  

When we move to fascism, nazis, and concentration camp rhetoric, that’s a whole different thing and far more destructive. It’s an asinine take that legitimizes killing people. When Donald Trump and now Charlie Kirk become Hitler, loons start to believe they are justified in taking them out.  

I have personally decided to do my part in remaining rational and calm, but in no way is it an admission that this a “shared equally” problem.  This is a problem with people that truly believe their virtues and beliefs no matter how crazy they are, legitimize violence.  If you read some of the logic of people who post on here, it’s downright disgusting. While I can’t help but dislike them, I pray to God to grant me
Patience and better understanding so that I can help others not be victim to their insane beliefs and anger / violence for those that don’t agree with them.

purplefaithful wrote:
The temp has to be turned down in this country politically, or this will simply continue.

I dont care who's sleeping in the white house, this has to start at the top of the political world with Potus. Then the Speaker, The whip, The Governors and others in both parties need to echo the sentiment and fall in line like good soldiers.

How many more Kirks and Hortmans need to be gunned down and families left to visit graves?

Wherever you are on the political spectrum, this should be what we demand of elected leaders now more than ever.

Are you going to hold your breath about it? Or hold those "in charge" accountable to change the narrative in the country?

Am I sure we know what/who caused the temp to skyrocket. It is not like some have not been saying this is where we will end. I for one am not surprised.
Anyway,

• The fact that someone was killed because of his views is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable
  
• The fact that someone spent the greater part of his adult life and podium promoting hate and extremism in the community was disgraceful.
  

If we can't agree that both of the statements above can be true and are true then this is a pointless discussion.

The question I have is, what made one person get so frustrated/angry to take another man's life? Can we at least start there?
Saying this is not the time or place is just an easy copout from the real issues.

Waterboy wrote:

As I’ve said, my firm belief is that the violent rhetoric stems from the leadership on one side, not the other.  Does Trump call Rosie fat and Joe sleepy and incompetent? Yes.  That’s far different than labeling Trump and all of his supporters as fascists and nazis. There is no justification to kill fat or lazy people coming out of Trumps words. There’s no justification whatsoever.  Is it childish or mean at times? Yes. Is it dangerous in and of itself?  No.  

When we move to fascism, nazis, and concentration camp rhetoric, that’s a whole different thing and far more destructive. It’s an asinine take that legitimizes killing people. When Donald Trump and now Charlie Kirk become Hitler, loons start to believe they are justified in taking them out.  

I have personally decided to do my part but in no way is it an admission that this a “shared equally” problem.  This is a problem with people that truly believe their virtues and beliefs no matter how crazy they are, condone violence.

Nice example you chose there. I am sure that is all he says to people. 
If someone says things that remind others, closely resemble, or associate themselves with people that admire racist, fascists and fans of hate speech then they should not be surprised when they are associated with such people or labelled as such. Anyway keep rationalizing.

mblack wrote:

Am I sure we know what/who caused the temp to skyrocket. It is not like some have not been saying this is where we will end. I for one am not surprised.
Anyway,

• The fact that someone was killed because of his views is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable
  
• The fact that someone spent the greater part of his adult life and podium promoting hate and extremism in the community was disgraceful.
  

If we can't agree that both of the statements above can be true and are true then this is a pointless discussion.

The question I have is, what made one person get so frustrated/angry to take another man's life? Can we at least start there?
Saying this is not the time or place is just an easy copout from the real issues.

How in the hell can anyone say that he preached hate.  He tried to save all human life from destruction and mutilation of five year old children. That’s not hate, it’s love and it’s perverted to try to twist that message.  Charlie didn’t hate women who chose abortion. He tried to dissuade them from making a decision that forfeited another human life.  He expressed love  for those that made bad decisions in the past. Your post simply continues and rationalizes a totally false narrative.

purplefaithful wrote:
The temp has to be turned down in this country politically, or this will simply continue.

I dont care who's sleeping in the white house, this has to start at the top of the political world with Potus. Then the Speaker, The whip, The Governors and others in both parties need to echo the sentiment and fall in line like good soldiers.

How many more Kirks and Hortmans need to be gunned down and families left to visit graves?

Wherever you are on the political spectrum, this should be what we demand of elected leaders now more than ever.

Are you going to hold your breath about it? Or hold those "in charge" accountable to change the narrative in the country?

C'mon PF.  You're better than this.  The vast majority of the people you listed...are Republicans.  So...it's really Republicans that need to learn to STFU...nobody needs their Nazi takes anyway.  Charlie Kirk's biggest claim to fame was to go out and have honest and respectful discussions with those that disagreed with him.  Guess we shouldn't encourage people actually sitting down and discussing these things.  Best we live in our own echo chambers.  You basically agree with the Matthew Dowd take on MSNBC in blaming the rhetoric...on the Right..who even inferred the shooting could have been from a supporter..

"Yeah. And again, I emphasize what you just emphasized, we don’t know any full details of this. We don’t know if this was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration, so we have no idea about this. But following up with what was just said, he’s been one of the most divisive, especially divisive younger figures in this, who is constantly sort of pushing this sort of hate speech, or sort of aimed at certain groups. And I always go back to hateful thoughts, lead to hateful words, which then lead to hateful actions.

And I think that’s the environment we’re in, that people just-, you can’t stop with these sort of awful thoughts you have, and then saying these awful words, and then not expect awful actions to take place. And that’s the unfortunate environment we are in."

Look at how this thread started.  We had the standard concentration camp Nazi reference.  Can't go anywhere these days without that.  The big ovens at Alligator Alley must be on backorder.  We then moved to the pedophile Epstein nonsense,  The information had been available to the Biden Administration basically the whole time.  I wonder how twisted you have to be to not believe that if there was incriminating information on Trump involving underage girls...that it wouldn't have come out prior to the election.  That's just stupid to claim they had the get out of jail free card to win the election...and didn't use it. It's just the new Russia, Russia, Russia thing with a twist.

I didn't leave the Democratic party...it left me.  I'm still not a Republican but honestly after stuff like this it make me wonder why I remain an independent.

mblack wrote:

Am I sure we know what/who caused the temp to skyrocket. It is not like some have not been saying this is where we will end. I for one am not surprised.
Anyway,

• The fact that someone was killed because of his views is utterly disgraceful and unacceptable
  
• The fact that someone spent the greater part of his adult life and podium promoting hate and extremism in the community was disgraceful.
  

If we can't agree that both of the statements above can be true and are true then this is a pointless discussion.

The question I have is, what made one person get so frustrated/angry to take another man's life? Can we at least start there?
Saying this is not the time or place is just an easy copout from the real issues.

Nice example you chose there. I am sure that is all he says to people. 
If someone says things that remind others, closely resemble, or associate themselves with people that admire racist, fascists and fans of hate speech then they should not be surprised when they are associated with such people or labelled as such. Anyway keep rationalizing.

You managed a dialogue that closely resembled the guy fired from MSNBC.  Maybe you ought to re-evaluate if you’re ignorant or evil, and hope you’re in the former and can do something about it.

Waterboy wrote:
How in the hell can anyone say that he preached hate.  He tried to save all human life from destruction and mutilation of five year old children. That’s not hate, it’s love and it’s perverted to try to twist that message.  Charlie didn’t hate women who chose abortion. He tried to dissuade them from making a decision that forfeited another human life.  He expressed love  for those that made bad decisions in the past. Your post simply continues and rationalizes a totally false narrative.

This is why this discussion is a waste of time. I am sure you can google

Waterboy wrote:
You managed a dialogue that closely resembled the guy fired from MSNBC.  Maybe you ought to re-evaluate if you’re ignorant or evil, and hope you’re in the former and can do something about it.

You win.

mblack wrote:

This is why this discussion is a waste of time. I am sure you can google

You win.

Sorry that you can't decipher the difference between tough discussions, differing points of views, and "hate".  It's the same logic that leads lefties to label Trump and his supporters as Nazi's and Fascists.  We can't start a dialogue on even terms when that's the supposed starting point.  It's irrational from the onset.

For the record, I was a fan of Charlie Kirk. I didn't agree with him all the time but I respected the fact that he would be willing to have difficult conversations and take questions from those that disagreed with him..and it was almost always a respectful discussion. We need more of that in this world and not less. The minute we stop listening to each other...we all lose.

Many nailed down rookies in this years class.

For you to come back and put up this post makes you an absolute garbage person. Not that I am surprised. Pure trash.

JustInTime wrote:
Not the time or place? I’ve heard that before. Typically after a school has been shot up. 

Like the orange shitstain said previously, we have to move passed this, amirite?

I’m good with one less fascist in the world. Hopefully more to come. Anything to distract from the Epstein files.

As you are condoning killing of people now? Yeah, we can all start to do so then. Hoping more to die? How the fuck are you still allowed here you piece of shit. No will attack you every second I get. Fucking loser.

This is just local, but trust me, our kids are watching and learning from the adults all over the country:

9/11:
Shortly after 12:30 p.m., police were alerted to a report of a Como Park student with a gun. School staff told police that one student reported being shown the gun by the teenager.
A school staff member patted the student down near the front office and “felt the firearm,” the charges read. The student then ran from the building.
Officers found the student in an alley north of Lawson Avenue and east of Mackubin Street.
A resident told police that the student had been in the yard nearby in the 1000 block of Norton Street before he was arrested. Officers went to the home and found in the backyard the semiautomatic gun, which contained a magazine loaded with one round.

On Sept. 2, a 14-year-old student at St. Paul Johnson High School was arrested after bringing an unloaded gun on the first day of school. In a letter to parents, Principal Jamil Payton said the gun was discovered after school administrators received a tip that a student may have brought a weapon to class. No incident with the gun occurred, and nobody was injured.

On Aug. 27 in Minneapolis, two children were fatally shot and 21 other people – most of them children – were wounded at Annunciation Catholic Church and School during its first week of class.

purplefaithful wrote:
This is just local, but trust me, our kids are watching and learning from the adults all over the country:

9/11:
Shortly after 12:30 p.m., police were alerted to a report of a Como Park student with a gun. School staff told police that one student reported being shown the gun by the teenager.
A school staff member patted the student down near the front office and “felt the firearm,” the charges read. The student then ran from the building.
Officers found the student in an alley north of Lawson Avenue and east of Mackubin Street.
A resident told police that the student had been in the yard nearby in the 1000 block of Norton Street before he was arrested. Officers went to the home and found in the backyard the semiautomatic gun, which contained a magazine loaded with one round.

On Sept. 2, a 14-year-old student at St. Paul Johnson High School was arrested after bringing an unloaded gun on the first day of school. In a letter to parents, Principal Jamil Payton said the gun was discovered after school administrators received a tip that a student may have brought a weapon to class. No incident with the gun occurred, and nobody was injured.

On Aug. 27 in Minneapolis, two children were fatally shot and 21 other people – most of them children – were wounded at Annunciation Catholic Church and School during its first week of class.

As I said yesterday, I think it's a mistake to have a mass shooting, school shooting, etc. discussion in conjunction with this topic.  This was most likely a political / viewpoint assassination.  The rifle used was a standard bolt action rifle with a scope.  In other words, the same type of gun used by most deer/elk/moose/bear hunters every season.  Utah is a big hunting state.  You really think there is ANY chance of taking those guns away?  Really?

For the Minny incidents, didn't those people know that those were gun free zones?  I thought for sure that would have prevented the problems  :s.  Between gun free zones and elimination of school resource officers and lack of concealed carry for designated school, church personnel which create soft targets, we're just daring people to keep doing this stuff.  

Again, as an independent, I could support some common sense limitations on assault type rifles and large magazines but that just always turns into a slippery slope of gun control.

badgervike wrote:

As I said yesterday, I think it's a mistake to have a mass shooting, school shooting, etc. discussion in conjunction with this topic.  This was most likely a political / viewpoint assassination.  The rifle used was a standard bolt action rifle with a scope.  In other words, the same type of gun used by most deer/elk/moose/bear hunters every season.  Utah is a big hunting state.  You really think there is ANY chance of taking those guns away?  Really?

For the Minny incidents, didn't those people know that those were gun free zones?  I thought for sure that would have prevented the problems  :s.  Between gun free zones and elimination of school resource officers and lack of concealed carry for designated school, church personnel which create soft targets, we're just daring people to keep doing this stuff.  

Again, as an independent, I could support some common sense limitations on assault type rifles and large magazines but that just always turns into a slippery slope of gun control.

The story I see is learning to settle differences/grievances through violence, not gun control...Could be a knife, shiv, AR15..

My thinking has evolved over time as it pertains to gun control. Here in MN the dems are pushing banning assault weapons. Not a bad idea, but not a good idea in and of itself in a vacuum. 

Not if you want to make a real difference and not just score some points with your base. 

Red team is pushing more $$ into social services, mental health facilities - and of course banning guns for trans people. You know how I feel about that last notion, the first two past the common sense test to me - and not just score political points with your base. 

If there is a special session here this fall, I hope the outcome is a blending of the two approaches.

purplefaithful wrote:

The story I see is learning to settle differences/grievances through violence, not gun control...Could be a knife, shiv, AR15..

My thinking has evolved over time as it pertains to gun control. Here in MN the dems are pushing banning assault weapons. Not a bad idea, but not a good idea in and of itself in a vacuum. 

Not if you want to make a real difference and not just score some points with your base. 

Red team is pushing more $$ into social services, mental health facilities - and of course banning guns for trans people. You know how I feel about that last notion, the first two past the common sense test to me - and not just score political points with your base. 

If there is a special session here this fall, I hope the outcome is a blending of the two approaches.

Banning guns based on just being trans is not something I would support at all.   There should be limits on things of course, but it's a tough issue no doubt.  People forget that Amendments 1 and 2 are no. 1 and no. 2 for a reason.  They are at the heart of our very existence as a country.  Criminals and mentally ill people obviously need to have restrictions placed on the weapons they can own.  Taking incremental steps is the right approach and I'm on board with everything you say here.

If it's any consolation, I'm not sure that team Red actually wants a ban on Trans owning guns...but they are using the string of shootings to raise awareness. Again, it's about the integrity of the MSM. If it is a LGBTQ shooter, the MSM will do everything in their power to not report it. On the other hand, if it's a right wing shooter....it's paraded front and center...even when it later turns out the facts don't support the ideology. I'm not sure most people were aware the shooters were Trans...and the Pulse nightclub shooter was gay..etc. It doesn't fit their narrative. I understand the angst on your part so I'll leave it at that.

badgervike wrote:
If it's any consolation, I'm not sure that team Red actually wants a ban on Trans owning guns...but they are using the string of shootings to raise awareness.  Again, it's about the integrity of the MSM.  If it is a LGBTQ shooter, the MSM will do everything in their power to not report it.  On the other hand, if it's a right wing shooter....it's paraded front and center...even when it later turns out the facts don't support the ideology.  I'm not sure most people were aware the shooters were Trans...and the Pulse nightclub shooter was gay..etc.  It doesn't fit their narrative.  I understand the angst on your part so I'll leave it at that.

Things can be true and not universal.  I believe suicide rates and other factors will tell you that trans individuals suffer from more mental illnesses than the population as whole.  Statistics will also tell us that blacks are more prone to committing crime.  Pointing out these things is not racist or evil.  It's simply a part of a discussion which should also recognize that one race or sex is not inherently better than another and that individuals are individuals and should be treated as such.  The left goes out of their way to not have discussions on facts, but dwell almost entirely on emotion, which is why somebody like Charlie Kirk is so threatening to them.