The man’s on a mission..

Waterboy wrote:
Mideast peace on the horizon?  It’s just incredible the difference true leadership can make 

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/steve-witkoffs-newsmax-abraham-accords/2025/06/25/id/1216478/

You get your Daily dose of Trump fluffing out of your system?  I can never see any of your Newsmax posts but gathered from the title it was about the Abraham Accords and possible expansion.  Certainly, neutering Iran will jump start those discussions but I can't see any movement until the Gaza situation is settled.  No Middle East country is going to jump on a peace agreement with Israel...while they're occupying Gaza.

badgervike wrote:

You get your Daily dose of Trump fluffing out of your system?  I can never see any of your Newsmax posts but gathered from the title it was about the Abraham Accords and possible expansion.  Certainly, neutering Iran will jump start those discussions but I can't see any movement until the Gaza situation is settled.  No Middle East country is going to jump on a peace agreement with Israel...while they're occupying Gaza.

I believe Syria and Lebanon are already on board and there are reasons more that the Iran Israel negotiation will involve Gaza.  I guess it’s fluffing when a guy has removed a nuclear threat from a rogue regime that was developing ICBM’s and highly enriched uranium. I guess it’s also fluff when the guy is on the verge of creating peace in the Mideast. Maybe people could and should see what the guy is accomplishing?   I think him achieving or on the verge of achieving these objectives may be worthy of mention, but that’s me.

Waterboy wrote:
I believe Syria and Lebanon are already on board and there are reasons more that the Iran Israel negotiation will involve Gaza.  I guess it’s fluffing when a guy has removed a nuclear threat from a rogue regime that was developing ICBM’s and highly enriched uranium. I guess it’s also fluff when the guy is on the verge of creating peace in the Mideast. Maybe people could and should see what the guy is accomplishing?   I think him achieving or on the verge of achieving these objectives may be worthy of mention, but that’s me.

I still have a worry about Iran and their nuclear ambitions.  If we assume Iran's 60% processed Uranium isn't buried under a mountain of rubble, I could certainly imagine Iran trading 60% processed Uranium and oil to somebody like North Korea for 90% metalized Uranium.  Lots of moving parts...a little early to be taking victory laps.

I think a lot of countries have agreed in principle to the Abraham accords...but it all hinges on resolving Gaza first.

badgervike wrote:

I still have a worry about Iran and their nuclear ambitions.  If we assume Iran's 60% processed Uranium isn't buried under a mountain of rubble, I could certainly imagine Iran trading 60% processed Uranium and oil to somebody like North Korea for 90% metalized Uranium.  Lots of moving parts...a little early to be taking victory laps.

I think a lot of countries have agreed in principle to the Abraham accords...but it all hinges on resolving Gaza first.

I’m pretty sure NK could give them a loaded nuke easier than the scenario you’re describing.  If Israel felt that the issue was not contained with their intelligence, there would not be a ceasefire.

Waterboy wrote:

I’m pretty sure NK could give them a loaded nuke easier than the scenario you’re describing.  If Israel felt that the issue was not contained with their intelligence, there would not be a ceasefire.

then here you have proven his case,  no time for victory laps or puffing ones chest,  that bombing run has only slowed their ability to become nuclear,  honestly there are so many ways for them to get nukes,  them developing their own almost seems stupid.  I am sure there are still warehouses of former soviet nukes laying around.

JimmyinSD wrote:

then here you have proven his case,  no time for victory laps or puffing ones chest,  that bombing run has only slowed their ability to become nuclear,  honestly there are so many ways for them to get nukes,  them developing their own almost seems stupid.  I am sure there are still warehouses of former soviet nukes laying around.

I didn't prove his case.  lol I'm saying other countries are not at ALL likely to support Iran getting Nukes.   Makes no sense when all of them are on the other side of the world by Iran.  I can see possibly NK because they're nuts but it's still not likely.  And the momentum of what has happened can make many more good things happen, kind of like when the wall fell.  I'm not sure where the heck victory laps entered the discussion.  Trump is using this to accelerate his agenda, and I'm all for it.

Waterboy wrote:

I didn't prove his case.  lol I'm saying other countries are not at ALL likely to support Iran getting Nukes.   Makes no sense when all of them are on the other side of the world by Iran.  I can see possibly NK because they're nuts but it's still not likely.  And the momentum of what has happened can make many more good things happen, kind of like when the wall fell.  I'm not sure where the heck victory laps entered the discussion.  Trump is using this to accelerate his agenda, and I'm all for it.

I can certainly see an axis and allies type of set up in the near future,  those that the US is at odds with could align, and start sharing resources to set up ww3, or at least to create a strong enough front to break our global control.

Waterboy wrote:

I didn't prove his case.  lol I'm saying other countries are not at ALL likely to support Iran getting Nukes.   Makes no sense when all of them are on the other side of the world by Iran.  I can see possibly NK because they're nuts but it's still not likely.  And the momentum of what has happened can make many more good things happen, kind of like when the wall fell.  I'm not sure where the heck victory laps entered the discussion.  Trump is using this to accelerate his agenda, and I'm all for it.

North Korea, Russia and Pakistan have all assisted Iran's nuclear program.  As I said, NK (and possibly Pakistan) could certainly take 60% Uranium up to 90% and metalize it into cylinders and fly back to Iran who could put it together with their ballistic missile.  By doing it that way, it's easier to get materials around shipping embargoes than sending entire nuclear warheads.  It also gives the assisting countries some degree of separation in case the materials are discovered.  Bomb parts based on Iranian nuclear material is one thing.  Fully assembled warheads...that would certainly enlist a different global reaction.

I believe we significantly diminished Iran's nuclear program.  I also believed a cornered animal is most dangerous.  Let's put the team blue and team red pom poms away right now and concentrate on pressuring Iran into the global community...for real this time.

badgervike wrote:

North Korea, Russia and Pakistan have all assisted Iran's nuclear program.  As I said, NK (and possibly Pakistan) could certainly take 60% Uranium up to 90% and metalize it into cylinders and fly back to Iran who could put it together with their ballistic missile.  By doing it that way, it's easier to get materials around shipping embargoes than sending entire nuclear warheads.  It also gives the assisting countries some degree of separation in case the materials are discovered.  Bomb parts based on Iranian nuclear material is one thing.  Fully assembled warheads...that would certainly enlist a different global reaction.

I believe we significantly diminished Iran's nuclear program.  I also believed a cornered animal is most dangerous.  Let's put the team blue and team red pom poms away right now and concentrate on pressuring Iran into the global community...for real this time.

For chrissakes, we downgraded their nuclear capabilities big time, we knocked down their missile inventory and military launch inventory.  NK and Pakistan already have these cylinders and would not need Iranian fuel to send these to them. I’m not saying walk away from this. I’m saying quite the opposite, sprint towards it and utilize the fact that they’re at a generational weak level and step on the accelerator.  We downgraded their nuclear program big time.  I don’t understand why you seem to be turning good news to bad and acting like we don’t have a reason to be happy about recent developments.  And yes, they are developments that wouldn’t have happened with blue Pom poms.

Btw, broader than just his actions in Iran, he brought peace in the Congo along with access to rare earth, he got NATO countries to up contributions to 5%, he won two huge Supreme Court rulings, had record low border crossings, and I’m sure I’m missing ten other things. I’m not sure a president has ever had a better week. Lol.

Waterboy wrote:
Btw, broader than just his actions in Iran, he brought peace in the Congo along with access to rare earth, he got NATO countries to up contributions to 5%, he won two huge Supreme Court rulings, had record low border crossings, and I’m sure I’m missing ten other things.  I’m not sure a president has ever had a better week. Lol.

Markets (S & P 500/ NASDAQ) finish Week all time highs

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-stock-futures-rise-rate-cut-hopes-ahead-inflation-data-2025-06-27/

A prominent Wall Street economist who had slammed President Trump’s tariffs earlier this year now says that the president may have “outsmarted all of us” with his controversial trade policies.

https://nypost.com/2025/06/27/business/top-economist-says-trump-may-have-outsmarted-all-of-us-on-tariffs/

And yet the green energy scam is still alive and well funded,  and his big bitch bill allows them a pathway to eminent domain for the carbon crooks.

Eminent domain for profit is about as un-American as one can get,  unless he calls for the removal of the 45Q tax credits,  the pathways to eminent domain for carbon crook pipelines,  and a few other shit parts in that bill... the rest is just window dressing IMO.

JimmyinSD wrote:
And yet the green energy scam is still alive and well funded,  and his big bitch bill allows them a pathway to eminent domain for the carbon crooks. Eminent domain for profit is about as un-American as one can get,  unless he calls for the removal of the 45Q tax credits,  the pathways to eminent domain for carbon crook pipelines,  and a few other shit parts in that bill... the rest is just window dressing IMO.

Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 30, 2025

purplefaithful wrote:

Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 30, 2025

He's right, we need an alternative to the 2 party system:

If this insane spending bill passes, the America Party will be formed the next day.

Our country needs an alternative to the Democrat-Republican uniparty so that the people actually have a VOICE.

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) June 30, 2025

I was reading today that the big bitch bill has grown by another trillion in the senate.  

This has to stop.  He campaigned on cutting spending and reducing the debt,  this is not the way to do it.  Get spending under control,  get balanced budget ammendments passed then work on tax relief.  You can't cut the income stream,  increase spending, and expect to reduce the debt.  

Fix the machine first,  then look for ways celebrate,  not the other way around.

JimmyinSD wrote:
I was reading today that the big bitch bill has grown by another trillion in the senate.  

This has to stop.  He campaigned on cutting spending and reducing the debt,  this is not the way to do it.  Get spending under control,  get balanced budget ammendments passed then work on tax relief.  You can't cut the income stream,  increase spending, and expect to reduce the debt.  

Fix the machine first,  then look for ways celebrate,  not the other way around.

The deficit really depends on whether the economy takes off or not.  They factored between $3 - 4T in deficit increase into the bill...over 10 years.  That's $400B per year.  If the economy picks up due to the stimulative activity, tax revenues will exceed the projections in the bill and debt will be reduced.  Btw, debt doesn't matter if the economy is growing....it matters a lot if the economy isn't.  It's much the same as a business taking on financing.  Financing by itself isn't bad unless the financing doesn't pay dividends.

Let's not forget that we're coming off a President who increased the debt by $8.5T in four years...or $2.125B per year...or 30.5%.  That kind of makes the $400B look good by comparison (it's not!).  The bill can't bake cuts to the Prime Rate into the projections.  Decreasing the Prime could more than halve our nearly $1T annual debt interest payments.  If you reduce Prime, that $400B per year increase disappears completely.  The spending still needs to be brought in check..and as we know..virtually any spending cuts done by Executive Action are forced to spend time in Court.  The Republicans don't have the supermajority in the Senate to make bold legislative changes such as eliminating entire departments like the Dept.  or Education.  They can't even manage to push through obvious things eliminating benefits to illegals.

I agree with you though Jimmy, we need politicians with courage which doesn't exist in Washington.  I'm a small government guy so the tax cuts are a start but as you pointed out...they need to be accompanied with real spending cuts.  Right now, we're stuck with $1T in annual debt interest payments and an expensive immigration mess that can't be solved (either way) without spending a lot of money.  The Europeans are finding out the same thing right now.

Isn’t it like 2/3 of the budget or more is tied up in entitlements and debt? It’s a losing equation with the slowing birth rate. Growth and lower interest rates help the equation greatly. At some point entitlements will need to be addressed but it won’t be until the absolute last possible minute. These guys robbed these funds for years so they can’t really make huge cuts for the baby boomers at this point. Hopefully the growth associated with the US becoming an AI leader coupled with the repatriation and better trade deals can help us move closer to fiscal soundness. It’s not going to be simple.

JimmyinSD wrote:
And yet the green energy scam is still alive and well funded,  and his big bitch bill allows them a pathway to eminent domain for the carbon crooks.

Eminent domain for profit is about as un-American as one can get,  unless he calls for the removal of the 45Q tax credits,  the pathways to eminent domain for carbon crook pipelines,  and a few other shit parts in that bill... the rest is just window dressing IMO.

You cannot fix every ill at once.  The BBB increases the debt which I hate.  I've been against green energy forever as green energy and climate change is definitively one big scam.  If Republicans had greater majorities, less of this shit would be in the bill.  But since it's "reconciliation" to bypass a filibuster, bad things are going to be in the bill.  There isn't a human on the planet that could prevent that.  It's time to take the good parts and build on them.  The first part has to be super charging the economy to grow revenue and cut the deficit.  Make immigration occur on our terms.  Get tariff revenue to help plug the deficits.  Increase energy production to plug the trade deficits.  We're not as far off from those goals with the bill passed.  This bill gives the push to do all of those things.  You and I agree on most everything, but there also has to be a degree of realism on where we're at today and how to work out of it.  It won't happen in days, months, or even years.  This is a two to three decade issue that we can either alleviate or make worse.

JimmyinSD wrote:
I was reading today that the big bitch bill has grown by another trillion in the senate.  

This has to stop.  He campaigned on cutting spending and reducing the debt,  this is not the way to do it.  Get spending under control,  get balanced budget ammendments passed then work on tax relief.  You can't cut the income stream,  increase spending, and expect to reduce the debt.  

Fix the machine first,  then look for ways celebrate,  not the other way around.

10% or at best 20% of congress would support balancing the budget once the facts are laid out.  I'm not sure how you're saying we're reducing the income stream.  Repatriating a bunch of manufacturing, increasing tariffs, and getting the economy booming has always resulted in increased revenue.   

Please give me a practical plan whereby we get to where you're saying given the makeup of congress.  I'm listening.

Waterboy wrote:

You cannot fix every ill at once.  The BBB increases the debt which I hate.  I've been against green energy forever as green energy and climate change is definitively one big scam.  If Republicans had greater majorities, less of this shit would be in the bill.  But since it's "reconciliation" to bypass a filibuster, bad things are going to be in the bill.  There isn't a human on the planet that could prevent that.  It's time to take the good parts and build on them.  The first part has to be super charging the economy to grow revenue and cut the deficit.  Make immigration occur on our terms.  Get tariff revenue to help plug the deficits.  Increase energy production to plug the trade deficits.  We're not as far off from those goals with the bill passed.  This bill gives the push to do all of those things.  You and I agree on most everything, but there also has to be a degree of realism on where we're at today and how to work out of it.  It won't happen in days, months, or even years.  This is a two to three decade issue that we can either alleviate or make worse.

10% or at best 20% of congress would support balancing the budget once the facts are laid out.  I'm not sure how you're saying we're reducing the income stream.  Repatriating a bunch of manufacturing, increasing tariffs, and getting the economy booming has always resulted in increased revenue.   

Please give me a practical plan whereby we get to where you're saying given the makeup of congress.  I'm listening.

we control the all 3 branches,  why include dems wish list shit if they arent going to support the bills anyway?  typically the reason you see R's not supporting these bills is because they are not R type of measures,  increasing spending is not what any R ran on in the last few election cycles, regardless of the intent.  IMO you would have less dissent from the home team if they hadnt been stuffing objectionable spending into the bill.

and tax breaks for anybody is cutting the income stream,  sorry thats how our govt makes money and since they owe so damn much of it... giving tax vacations to anybody should be out of the question until that debt is payed down considerably.  I dont give 2 fucks about the spending defecit, it should be zero by law,  I am talking about retiring the debt instead of handing it down to our kids.  no amount of increased spending and tax cuts is going to make that happen.

the rest of the bullshit in this bill is just that...bullshit.  you cant spend yourself out of debt,  and the pipe dreams of making it up in new revenue and income from all these returning mfg jobs... I will believe it when I see it and I am not holding my breath.

of course we will get fed some voodoo, twisted new ways to measure debt and income in the coming months and every red tie will get a chubby and every blue tie will have the excuses,  but it will be the same net outcome, increased debt on promises of a better way forward.

fuck this shit, I am tired of the lies.

JimmyinSD wrote:

we control the all 3 branches,  why include dems wish list shit if they arent going to support the bills anyway?  typically the reason you see R's not supporting these bills is because they are not R type of measures,  increasing spending is not what any R ran on in the last few election cycles, regardless of the intent.  IMO you would have less dissent from the home team if they hadnt been stuffing objectionable spending into the bill.

and tax breaks for anybody is cutting the income stream,  sorry thats how our govt makes money and since they owe so damn much of it... giving tax vacations to anybody should be out of the question until that debt is payed down considerably.  I dont give 2 fucks about the spending defecit, it should be zero by law,  I am talking about retiring the debt instead of handing it down to our kids.  no amount of increased spending and tax cuts is going to make that happen.

the rest of the bullshit in this bill is just that...bullshit.  you cant spend yourself out of debt,  and the pipe dreams of making it up in new revenue and income from all these returning mfg jobs... I will believe it when I see it and I am not holding my breath.

of course we will get fed some voodoo, twisted new ways to measure debt and income in the coming months and every red tie will get a chubby and every blue tie will have the excuses,  but it will be the same net outcome, increased debt on promises of a better way forward.

fuck this shit, I am tired of the lies.

Without reading the bill, my guesses are things such as the Medicaid cuts for illegals which were shot down by the Parliamentarian.  Other pork spending is included for Republican Senators who don't want to give up what they have.  I agree with you in theory.  Cut the gdamn pork, but it's not realistic now all in one attempt.  If the bill moves in the right direction, which I believe it does, sometimes you need to settle.  Like it or not, this thing could easily torpedoed by one person and there's simply no way around that, even though I agree with some of what you're saying.   I definitely believe greasing the skids of industry will result in an increase in revenues as will spending.  I simply don't agree with you at all about the capability to raise revenue through tax cuts and a robust economy.  I believe history would say you're wrong.  and no president has come remotely close to getting the wheels turning like Trump has with the advent of AI which in and of itself could drive a whole new direction for this economy, and guess who's one step ahead of the game?

Murkowski in particular loaded up the pork in return for her vote. Does anyone know how she stays a Senator in very Red Alaska except for ranked voting and the popularity of her father? Her views are not indicative of her primary base.