KAM....just take the deal, dude....

lol, two great answers.

MaroonBells wrote:
It's not a mixed bag at all and I'm not going to go into everything he's done in terms of culture, the cap, the draft and free agency because it would take time I don't have and you already know it anyway. You just choose not to see it.  Not having an extra 1st in 2023 was about the 2022 draft. Again, there isn't anyone who would argue that this wasn't a terrible draft. However, the Vikings 2023 draft was not a miss at all. Addison was taken 4th among four 1st round receivers. He has been better than all of them. Blackmon was the 50th defensive player taken in that draft, but had the 4th highest PFF grade among all defensive rookies. He was the only player to have at least 400 snaps and not miss a tackle. Our 2023 draft ranked 10th among 32 teams by Bleacher Report in a review done a year later. It ranked 8th by CBS, and was one of only three drafts to be given an A+ by another site. We've had better drafts, but if you think 2023 was a bad draft, you need context. 20+ teams would've loved that draft.

You are spin doctoring to make your point. 6 picks, one being impactful. So all Drafts are judged well if they hit on one player? Piss poor percentage. I happen to think Blackmon has a chance. Thank you for graciously recognizing the 2022 Draft as one of the worst in Viking's history ;)  What 'culture' has KAM brought to the equation? He's got much to prove, its why he hasn't been re-upped on his contract. Why play hard ball if he's that good? No reason of course. The jury is still very out on the KAMster.

purplefaithful wrote:
^^^ This.... As much as we lump JJM/Turner together, the truth is the QB is most important - and its not close.  Turner is important, JJM critical.

If we only count how a GM does drafting QBs.....there aren't many good GMs in the NFL, lol. I feel you here. But there has to be more to it. And KAM wasn't going to be drafting any QBs that KOC didn't approve of first. And Minnesota was interested in Kevin O'Connell long before they hired KAM. So KAM gets the credit for signing Van Ginkel and Greenard....or does BFlo get the credit for making them work? Wait, hold on, I know the answer! 'Two things can be true'! [img]https://media.tenor.com/nyg5ksjqZ_AAAAAM/my-work-here-is-done-bart.gif[/img]

So I've been accused of being a KAM apologist a year ago and now I'm a hater, lol. Always fun on the board. I was the one a year ago saying we needed more time to judge KAM, that he was being harshly critiqued .....and that probably still applies to some aspect. He's a mixed bag of success and failure. Why a few here are denying the criticism is more than silly, he deserves it. I've accused MB of being a homer in the past, which he is and I know he hates that, but its hard to deny.

If KAM was the rockstar some say he is, he'd be signed by now. Bottom line. I hope he becomes one. And if you don't think the Wilfs view KOC differently than KAM, take off the purple colored blinders.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
Who is this "they"?  Are you all bringing twitter beefs here from the lows of the low?  Cuz I don't see this kind of talk on our board?

Yeah, I think that's whats happening. This isn't Twitter.

JustInTime wrote:
I don't think anyone is calling him a rockstar. So far all I've heard ad nauseam is he can't draft. I mean JFC there's more to the position than one aspect of the job.

For sure. I don't think anyone hasn't given him props in other areas. The Draft faux pas are glaring unfortunately.

I forgot about Gabe Murphy. Man that would be great if he ended up being a contributor. Good athlete.

I have zero doubt the Wilfs want to keep KAM. But he's not as important as KOC....and the 'market dynamics', which is a hilarious term, just means other teams were sniffing around if shit blew up in negotiations between KOC and the team and they needed to make it happen now. Nobody is knocking down Zygi's door to get at KAM....there's no worry about 'market dynamics' concerning Kwesi. I like KAM and want to keep him and I'm quite sure that is what is going to happen.

MaroonBells wrote:
Look, Viking fans tend to see things through shit colored lenses. They just do. I'm no psychologist, but I think years of abuse has taken its toll on many of you. And so Viking fans, much more than any other fan base, approach cautiously and full of doubt because it costs less. It takes less of an emotional toll. I don't operate that way. But I understand why many do. I'm just here to plant a flag of reality on your planet of doom. How do you explain why a draft seen by most unbiased sources as one of the better drafts in the NFL is frequently panned by Viking fans? How do you explain why a GM who has completely flipped the script for this team is seen as a liability instead of an asset? You call it a mixed bag of success and failure. You mean like every GM? There are far more successes than failures with Kwesi. You also have this idea that says there is a hesitation, or some kind of hang up in the Kwesi negotiations, and so you craft an explanation that fits your narrative. I don’t think there’s a delay at all. I said months ago that his deal probably won’t get done until after the draft. But I think when it finally is done you’re going to realize that all this KAM doubt was never really there to begin with.

I'm not 'crafting' anything, you are my man. Spinning it. Listen, we've both said our stuff on this, and if you take a moment, you know I've propped up KAM as recently as 2 or 3 weeks ago with free agency. Which draft by unbiased sources is one of the better drafts in the NFL?? The Addison draft?? Because they got a WR2 and nothing else? That's craftwork at its best, sir. And others besides myself agree. But also some others side with your viewpoint. Its all good from my perspective. Its good dialogue. I've given KAM a bunch of credit in the past for things other than the Draft, its all there in the pages of the board.

MaroonBells wrote:
Yes, the 2023 draft is the only one in question. You have to remember that a good third of that first round were busts or close to it (see their names in a previous post). So just the fact that neither of our first two picks could be considered busts probably puts our draft in the middle at the very least. And the fact that Addison, the 4th receiver taken in a run of 4 receivers, had 10 TDs and had a better year than any of the other 1st round receivers, solidifies that. That, combined with Blackmon, who was the 18th DB taken, but finished with the 3rd highest PFF grade among all DBs from that draft, pushes it up even further.  Top 10 in one review. Top 8 in another. And one of only three teams to receive an A+ on the third one. You're welcome to consider it a bad draft, but that's just a lack of context.  https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10109936-re-ranking-every-teams-2023-nfl-draft-class-after-rookie-seasons https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ranking-2023-nfl-rookie-classes-after-year-1-texans-claim-top-spot-packers-rams-and-lions-crack-top-10/ https://mysticsandstatistics.com/2023-nfl-draft-grade-1-year-later/ [hr] Why?

lol, ok. Listen......I'm good with stopping the disagreement because its just silly now. Addison is A+, no doubt. If you want to judge a Draft by one player, I won't stop you. There are so many 'sites' out there, I'm sure I could find a few that rate the 2022 draft as a B-. We're all KAM haters, we just don't realize it. ;)

Canthony wrote:
I think the trade up for Turner was an absolute A move by KAM. I give him hell a credit for it. Turner was super young when drafted, he was behind players that knew the system and were playing well. Took him a minute to get the complexity of it. The last 7 weeks he was really impressive, however. The percentage of hurries he had on the QB per snap, disruptions he had when he was in the play. Maybe someone, that can afford PFF, can post stats of it. The last few weeks Turner was impressive. Always around the ball and in the right spot. I consider that trade up very impressive. Just my opinion that is.

Its only good if Turner pans out. Verse has been the superior player in Year 1 and he was there for the taking. Big, big year for Dallas. Fingers crossed. He'll need to beat the one on ones he'll go against.

MaroonBells wrote:
Harumph. They're clearly lying. The delay is about his crap drafts. To see it any other way is just putting on purple colored lenses.

Dude....you ok? Seriously. Its either nap time or you need a new bottle. Childish. We can disagree, you know.

MaroonBells wrote:
Sorry, did I misquote you?

You seem like a fun guy.

supafreak84 wrote:
None of Kwesi's results have been surprising if you consider his background. He's a numbers/analytics guy, so it's not surprising along with Bryz's wizardry that they've been able to navigate the salary cap and structure contracts favorably. Kwesi's strong suit has been free agency where he is able to analyze known quantities with input from his coaches. I think he's done well trading for known quantities like Hockenson and the Cam Robinson acquisition really saved our season last year. It also shouldn't be surprising that the areas he has struggled in all deal with unknown quantities, those being the draft and trade compensation in the draft. Those are more difficult waters to navigate when you lack experience and a scouting background. I think if you combined Kwesi's numbers smarts with Spielman's scouting accumen...we'd have the perfect GM.

This ^

And the clock keeps ticking on an extension....so we also don't know the deets on KOC's deal yet either, correct? We know the length but not the amount per year I believe. Curious on that. I think Chicago's deal with Johnson irritated a lot of agents around the NFL, lol. They paid a ton for a first time HC.

JustInTime wrote:
I believe the KAM extension has been slated for post draft season, which apparently is the norm for front office types. Does sound like Mark Wilf and Kwesi’s agent are pressing forward in an amicable fashion.  Zero deets on KOC still. As far as the Bears go, yeah they had to overpay for Johnson to pry him loose. I was a little surprised he went there as the McCaskies have squeezed pennies until they weep. [b]I believe when they hired Eberflous they flew him out on coach![/b]

lol, that's hilarious. What's not hilarious is that the NFCN is going to be a real 'bear' for years to come.

Tick tock......

Have we seen anywhere the contract details of KOC's extension? I have not....are they waiting to release that when KAM signs?