Random Thoughts Pre Draft

supafreak84 wrote:

I just don't see a safety. I know Smith is year to year at this point, but we still have Mattelus, gave Theo Jackson a new deal, and Jay Ward is someone the organization likes and is still under contract for two more seasons. By all accounts the Flores scheme is a complicated one to learn, so if you draft a safety, you are essentially relegating that player to a redshirt type year where there only contributions will likely only be on special teams. There is no way you take that over a potential starting left guard, a rotational defensive lineman, a nickel corner or an impact running back who will get carries in rotation.

Why is the learning curve less for a nickel CB than S?

JustInTime wrote:

Why is the learning curve less for a nickel CB than S?

I'm not saying it is (although Lewis Cine might disagree), but looking at our roster there is more of an opportunity to play early as a corner than there would be at safety, where we are four deep already and any rookie impact for 2025 would likely be minimal.

supafreak84 wrote:

I'm not saying it is (although Lewis Cine might disagree), but looking at our roster there is more of an opportunity to play early as a corner than there would be at safety, where we are four deep already and any rookie impact for 2025 would likely be minimal.

So, does the complexity of the D change because of the personnel available? I’m assuming if the path to playing nickel is an easier one the complexity of the D remains constant.

JustInTime wrote:

So, does the complexity of the D change because of the personnel available? I’m assuming if the path to playing nickel is an easier one the complexity of the D remains constant.

Potentially. It's well documented that we run difficult schemes with a lot of moving parts on both sides of the ball. Rookies usually don't play much, so combine that with roster depth at certain positions and I think it would be an uphill battle for a rookie safety to make much of an impact in a year where I think we need it. They'll be buried on the depth chart until Flores can trust them on the field and there is opportunity. I don't see opportunity when we are four deep and those four have played multiple years and know what they are doing. We just saw this play out with Lewis Cine. No thanks on a Safety with our 1st round pick.

supafreak84 wrote:

Potentially. It's well documented that we run difficult schemes with a lot of moving parts on both sides of the ball. Rookies usually don't play much, so combine that with roster depth at certain positions and I think it would be an uphill battle for a rookie safety to make much of an impact in a year where I think we need it. They'll be buried on the depth chart until Flores can trust them on the field and there is opportunity. I don't see opportunity when we are four deep and those four have played multiple years and know what they are doing. We just saw this play out with Lewis Cine. No thanks on a Safety with our 1st round pick.

Ivan Pace played his whole rookie year when available.  It can be done.

AGRforever wrote:

Ivan Pace played his whole rookie year when available.  It can be done.

I thought about Pace and think he's that rare guy who did because he fit and there was opportunity. Does anybody see Starks overtaking Smith or Mattelus as a rookie? I don't

supafreak84 wrote:

I thought about Pace and think he's that rare guy who did because he fit and there was opportunity. Does anybody see Starks overtaking Smith or Mattelus as a rookie? I don't

So an UDFA could fit but a premium draft pick has no chance? Is the complexity of the D different for iLBs or is it less complex due to the lack of other talent at the position? I guess I just don’t understand this vacillating level of difficulty depending on position. The positions are all pretty interdependent in the back 7.

Also, if S is more difficult for a rookie than nickel wouldn’t it be prudent to bring in a player a year early to learn under Hitman before he hangs them up? 

I’m also confused as to how the S group has all this experience together now. Theo spot started for Harry. Ward has maybe 5 more D snaps than I have. The bulk of the starting experience is Mettelus and Smith. I’m willing to bet Smith is gone after this year. So then we’ve got 1 year of Jackson Mettelus duo.

supafreak84 wrote:

I thought about Pace and think he's that rare guy who did because he fit and there was opportunity. Does anybody see Starks overtaking Smith or Mattelus as a rookie? I don't

I think you're depending too much on a 36 year old player not experiencing any kind of age-related decline. Last year was Smith's 3rd straight season of sub-70 grades. Now that's still pretty damn good, but the cliff can show up at any time. Even if Smith were to beat out a player like Starks (hard to see), Starks would be the guy in 2026. 

I'd take a good CB over a good Safety for positional impact, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a safety like Starks over one of the 2nd round CBs. Our depth chart at safety looks like this: Metellus, Smith, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward and Bubba Bolden. It needs an infusion of youth and deep speed. That doesn't have to be our 1st pick, but it's a bigger need than some are thinking.

JustInTime wrote:

So an UDFA could fit but a premium draft pick has no chance? Is the complexity of the D different for iLBs or is it less complex due to the lack of other talent at the position? I guess I just don’t understand this vacillating level of difficulty depending on position. The positions are all pretty interdependent in the back 7.

Also, if S is more difficult for a rookie than nickel wouldn’t it be prudent to bring in a player a year early to learn under Hitman before he hangs them up? 

I’m also confused as to how the S group has all this experience together now. Theo spot started for Harry. Ward has maybe 5 more D snaps than I have. The bulk of the starting experience is Mettelus and Smith. I’m willing to bet Smith is gone after this year. So then we’ve got 1 year of Jackson Mettelus duo.

I'm not going to get involved in an elongated discussion breaking down the dynamics of each position group and how that plays into our scheme. It's a difficult scheme to learn from multiple sources and I just think drafting a safety for this season when we have limited draft picks and needing roster impact is a dumb move when we are four deep at safety currently and just signed the backup on an extension. We will get more immediate impact from almost any other position. We don't need another Lewis Cine buried on the depth chart who was never able to figure out the defense (which was reported). If you want to take a safety later on, cool...but not in the 1st round

MaroonBells wrote:

I think you're depending too much on a 36 year old player not experiencing any kind of age-related decline. Last year was Smith's 3rd straight season of sub-70 grades. Now that's still pretty damn good, but the cliff can show up at any time. Even if Smith were to beat out a player like Starks (hard to see), Starks would be the guy in 2026. 

I'd take a good CB over a good Safety for positional impact, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a safety like Starks over one of the 2nd round CBs. Our depth chart at safety looks like this: Metellus, Smith, Theo Jackson, Jay Ward and Bubba Bolden. It needs an infusion of youth and deep speed. That doesn't have to be our 1st pick, but it's a bigger need than some are thinking.

I'm good if they want to take a flyer on a Safety later in the draft, but not in the 1st round. We need an impact player and it's logical to think any safety would be buried behind the starters and it would be an uphill battle to beat out the backups. Look at Dallas Turner. That was exactly how it played put for him last season. Lewis Cine struggled to learn the defense. Give me someone who can play and make an impact as a rookie

I think we take a S right around where we took Cam Bynum And Josh Metellus. Day 3.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
I think we take a S right around where we took Cam Bynum And Josh Metellus.  Day 3.

I agree, I want Malachi Moore. I also really like Castro as well. Both would fit well with this defense.

I'm favoring a cornerback. I'm not completely sold on the corners we have now on the roster. Followed by getting another guard or tackle, depending on how healed up Darrisaw's knee is.

If Barron falls, I don't see him getting passed the Packers. More I think about it, the more I don't see a scenario that Barron is on our team. I think we turn the focus to Revel. Try and trade down and take Revel with our first pick.

Further making my case

Emmanwori will likely be an immediate impact player at the next level, particularly for defensive coordinators creative enough to maximize his unique skill set. His rare blend of size and speed screams modern NFL safety, capable of matching up with tight ends, supporting the run, and roaming the deep middle. Think a more explosive version of Kam Chancellor with better man coverage skills.

Any team running a heavy-quarters coverage scheme should have Emmanwori circled in red on their draft board. His ability to play in the box, handle man coverage responsibilities, and deliver bone-crushing hits makes him an ideal fit for defenses that ask their safeties to wear multiple hats. While he'll need some technical refinement in zone coverage, his athletic traits and football intelligence suggest a high ceiling as he develops.

The NFL is trending toward hybrid defenders who can counter modern offensive attacks, and Emmanwori fits that mold perfectly. His combination of size, speed, and physicality should make him an early contributor, with Pro Bowl potential if he lands with a defensive staff willing to move him around the formation.

Freakish size-speed combo jumps off the film - his 4.38 speed in a linebacker-sized frame creates serious matchup problems for offensive coordinators
Nasty striker in run support who plays downhill with bad intentions, consistently punishing ball carriers who dare enter his territory
Elite tackle radius and closing burst make him a heat-seeking missile against the run - rare missed tackles speak to his exceptional form and finishing ability
Shows natural route recognition skills in man coverage, particularly when matching up with tight ends where his length becomes a serious weapon
Quick mental processor who diagnoses screen plays and misdirection with veteran savvy, often blowing up plays before they develop
Brings that dog mentality to the field - plays with controlled aggression and sets a physical tone that energizes the entire defense
Exceptional ball skills for a big safety, displaying natural hands and body control when attacking the catch point
Special teams demon waiting to happen - size, speed, and tackling ability project him as an immediate four-phase contributor

StickierBuns wrote:

Overview
The assessment of Emmanwori’s tape could depend on which games you watch. He’s a physical specimen with rare size and outstanding speed, but he doesn’t always play with a “first to the action” mentality in run support. When he gets it cranked up, he becomes a much more effective tackler and overall run stopper from sideline to sideline. He’s capable of playing over the top, inside the box or even matching up with pass-catching tight ends. He’s upright with average transition fluidity in coverage, but he has great recovery speed and uses his length to throw a blanket over the catch point. He has rare NFL traits and talent, so a boost in urgency could take him from a good starter to a Pro Bowl-caliber player.

Weaknesses
Drifts through games without urgency at times.
Inconsistent downhill trigger in run support.
Block take-on and pursuit angles need improvement.
Gives too much ground to blockers instead of bypassing.
Hip tightness limits transition quickness in space.
Average instincts and route anticipation.

I saw the hip tightness comment. Go look at the tape and see for yourself in the pinned thread. He’s the reincarnation of Sean Taylor.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
I think we take a S right around where we took Cam Bynum And Josh Metellus.  Day 3.

This is a far more likely outcome. I’ve been getting Castro repeatedly Day 3.

I think the question about safety is do we want a replacement for Metellus who's in a contract year? A replacement for Harry, who's in his last season? Or competition for Theo Jackson, whom the team seems to like, but is largely unproven. 

Considering the above, safety is definitely a 1st round consideration, but I agree with Mr Gainz. Safety could also wait until the mid to late rounds.

MaroonBells wrote:
I think the question about safety is do we want a replacement for Metellus who's in a contract year? A replacement for Harry, who's in his last season? Or competition for Theo Jackson, whom the team seems to like, but is largely unproven. 

Considering the above, safety is definitely a 1st round consideration, but I agree with Mr Gainz. Safety could also wait until the mid to late rounds.

You’re asking the right questions. I’m further thinking matchups in the division and conference. Gibbs is a pretty big factor in the division.

Who in the back 7 has the speed to deal with Gibbs? No one currently. How about Barkley? Hurts? Daniels? Who matches up well with LaPorta or either TE in Green Bay? 

We need to close the gap on Detroit, then Washington and eventually Philadelphia. I think Emmanwori would help in that regard. So would Barron and Starks. The front 4 isn’t bulletproof but it’s damn close. Back 7? I think a difference maker back there gets you deeper into January football.

JustInTime wrote:

You’re asking the right questions. I’m further thinking matchups in the division and conference. Gibbs is a pretty big factor in the division.

Who in the back 7 has the speed to deal with Gibbs? No one currently. How about Barkley? Hurts? Daniels? Who matches up well with LaPorta or either TE in Green Bay? 

We need to close the gap on Detroit, then Washington and eventually Philadelphia. I think Emmanwori would help in that regard. So would Barron and Starks. The front 4 isn’t bulletproof but it’s damn close. Back 7? I think a difference maker back there gets you deeper into January football.

This is exactly the way they should be looking at it. Agree 100%.

JustInTime wrote:
Further making my case Emmanwori will likely be an immediate impact player at the next level, particularly for defensive coordinators creative enough to maximize his unique skill set. His rare blend of size and speed screams modern NFL safety, capable of matching up with tight ends, supporting the run, and roaming the deep middle. Think a more explosive version of Kam Chancellor with better man coverage skills. Any team running a heavy-quarters coverage scheme should have Emmanwori circled in red on their draft board. His ability to play in the box, handle man coverage responsibilities, and deliver bone-crushing hits makes him an ideal fit for defenses that ask their safeties to wear multiple hats. While he'll need some technical refinement in zone coverage, his athletic traits and football intelligence suggest a high ceiling as he develops. The NFL is trending toward hybrid defenders who can counter modern offensive attacks, and Emmanwori fits that mold perfectly. His combination of size, speed, and physicality should make him an early contributor, with Pro Bowl potential if he lands with a defensive staff willing to move him around the formation. [hr] Freakish size-speed combo jumps off the film - his 4.38 speed in a linebacker-sized frame creates serious matchup problems for offensive coordinators Nasty striker in run support who plays downhill with bad intentions, consistently punishing ball carriers who dare enter his territory Elite tackle radius and closing burst make him a heat-seeking missile against the run - rare missed tackles speak to his exceptional form and finishing ability Shows natural route recognition skills in man coverage, particularly when matching up with tight ends where his length becomes a serious weapon Quick mental processor who diagnoses screen plays and misdirection with veteran savvy, often blowing up plays before they develop Brings that dog mentality to the field - plays with controlled aggression and sets a physical tone that energizes the entire defense Exceptional ball skills for a big safety, displaying natural hands and body control when attacking the catch point Special teams demon waiting to happen - size, speed, and tackling ability project him as an immediate four-phase contributor

[b]Overview[/b] The assessment of Emmanwori’s tape could depend on which games you watch. He’s a physical specimen with rare size and outstanding speed, but he doesn’t always play with a “first to the action” mentality in run support. When he gets it cranked up, he becomes a much more effective tackler and overall run stopper from sideline to sideline. He’s capable of playing over the top, inside the box or even matching up with pass-catching tight ends. He’s upright with average transition fluidity in coverage, but he has great recovery speed and uses his length to throw a blanket over the catch point. He has rare NFL traits and talent, so a boost in urgency could take him from a good starter to a Pro Bowl-caliber player. [b]Weaknesses[/b] Drifts through games without urgency at times. Inconsistent downhill trigger in run support. Block take-on and pursuit angles need improvement. Gives too much ground to blockers instead of bypassing. Hip tightness limits transition quickness in space. Average instincts and route anticipation.