Pelissero: Most Logical is Darnold Staying in Minn

What used to be complicated/complex is now simple (for me);

We saw Darnold's ceiling...Not enough for me.

And some team will hand him a big bag.

purplefaithful wrote:
What used to be complicated/complex is now simple (for me);

We saw Darnold's ceiling...Not enough for me.

And some team will hand him a big bag.

Oh his ceiling was enough. You can win a Super Bowl with a QB who plays like that. It was his floor that kept haunting us and eventually bit us in the ass.

MaroonBells wrote:

Oh his ceiling was enough. You can win a Super Bowl with a QB who plays like that. It was his floor that kept haunting us and eventually bit us in the ass.

Sure, that works for me too...

Either way, I'd rather role with JJM/Dimes and have more $$ to spend

Just me...I say franchise him, trade him and get the draft picks while they're hot.

ArizonaViking wrote:
Just me...I say franchise him, trade him and get the draft picks while they're hot.

sure, if they have a tag/trade deal in place...Otherwise, too much risk at $40mm/season.

ArizonaVikingJust me...I say franchise him, trade him and get the draft picks while they're hot.

Would you give up draft capital and $45 million for Sam Darnold?

Here's how I see our options. 

1. Extend Darnold two years at about $45M per. Trade him after year one for the moon (assuming he plays as well). Negatives: Probably cuts our 2025 cap space in half. Positives: security, hedge on JJM's injury and uncertainty, could parlay it into major draft capital in 2026.

2. Tag and trade Darnold. Won't get much, thinking day-two pick at best, because new team will have to pay him franchise money. Give the keys to JJM. Negatives: No comp pick in '26. Puts a lot of faith into, and a lot of pressure onto, a 1st year starter. Players don't like to be tagged. Positives: We keep all our cap money and can go crazy with it this offseason.

3. Let him walk to the highest bidder. Give the keys to JJM. Negatives: Puts a lot of faith into, and a lot of pressure onto, a 1st year starter. And getting nothing at all (save a comp) for a Pro Bowl QB in his prime (whom WE rebuilt) is a hard pill to swallow. Positives: We keep all our cap money and can go crazy with it this offseason. 3rd round comp pick in 2026.

MaroonBells wrote:
Here's how I see our options. 

1. Extend Darnold two years at about $45M per. Trade him after year one for the moon (assuming he plays as well). Negatives: Probably cuts our 2025 cap space in half. Positives: security, hedge on JJM's injury and uncertainty, could parlay it into major draft capital in 2026.

2. Tag and trade Darnold. Won't get much, thinking day-two pick at best, because new team will have to pay him franchise money. Give the keys to JJM. Negatives: No comp pick in '26. Puts a lot of faith into, and a lot of pressure onto, a 1st year starter. Players don't like to be tagged. Positives: We keep all our cap money and can go crazy with it this offseason.

3. Let him walk to the highest bidder. Give the keys to JJM. Negatives: Puts a lot of faith into, and a lot of pressure onto, a 1st year starter. And getting nothing at all (save a comp) for a Pro Bowl QB in his prime (whom WE rebuilt) is a hard pill to swallow. Positives: We keep all our cap money and can go crazy with it this offseason. 3rd round comp pick in 2026.

Yes, rook qb's can start, but I dont think you can just give the keys to JJM at this point. KOC was quoted as saying we have our franchise QB in house, but that was long ago. He's missed a whole year of reps. 

Dimes is the key to much of this - at least for my peace of mind while JJ gets his feet back under himself.

my question for those that think this is an easy thing....

close your eyes and pretend that SD just played 88% of an NFL regular season with pro bowl numbers, had a career year, and in spite of his resume the previous 5 (?) years in the league, looked like he may actually have a future..... but that missing 12% suggests that he was a product of his surroundings and that the same QB that got run out of NY, couldnt make it in QB starved NC, and wasnt worth retaining in SF with their SB ready roster with one of the only ? being QB, do you as a GM roll in the armored car and dump your load? Its been said over and over SD's last few weeks cost him 50+ million, but over how many years? IMO he went from a 35 million avg contract to a 15 mill deal over 3 years, so IMO if you can resign him to compete with JJM for 15 mill a year, ink it. if his agent wants to roll the dice without KOC, JJ, and Adison... good luck kid and thanks for the memories and the draft pick.

Pelissero is carrying water for Sam's agent and/or the Vikings.  It's posturing.  Maybe somebody thinks it will help his market value or the tag/trade scenario.

Every concrete sign that's appeared since the season ended has pointed to Sam being gone:

KOC remarks after the last game
Sam's twitter farewell
the team's need to spend next year to replace guys, which won't happen if they are paying 41 mil to Sam
JJM is ready to go

The reality with Sam is he's been a bad qb who landed in a good spot with good coaching and weapons, and had a lot of luck which covered the mistakes and problems he was still having if you paid attention objectively not fanboying things.  He'll never be able to process what's in front of him at high speed, something JJM will be able to do.  Sam's not the future of the Vikings.

It's great that KOC can take various scrap heap qb's and get something out of them but that's not a path to a title.  It's why they drafted JJM and nixing that plan to fiddle around some more with Sam would be pointless.   The path to a title in today's NFL is a top tier qb that you build around.

StickierBuns wrote:

JMO, but this take I don't understand: so we sign Darnold for 2 years, he plays outstanding enough that we can 'trade him for the moon' after one year?? Why would the team do that? Wouldn't you just keep him in that scenario? Hedge on JJM's injury, its a meniscus tear? This is the most pipey of the pipe dreams right here and it really doesn't make any sense. Waste another year of McCarthy's contract doing nothing when KOC said he's a 'franchise QB'. The only security you'll get with Darnold in the end is assurance he will shit the bed like he did the last two games of the season. I mean isn't the point to try and find a guy that won't finally? I know you are still enamored with Darnold possibilities but his ending this year was so Vikings. All of these media members that want Minnesota to resign Darnold will be there to put the team on blast when he shits the bed again and say the braintrust fucked up. If I see one more comparison to Jordan Love and 'look how he sat and playing well now'....it's like really? He was behind a Hall of Fame QB in Aaron Rodgers still playing in his prime. Love went to Utah State......UTAH STATE. If there's a term for more raw than sushi, that applied to Love. And now what is Love's ceiling? A few floors lower than a year ago.

There's no guarantees about McCarthy, but he sure as hell needs to play to see. There's no other way to know and to keep kicking the can down the road on starting him actually puts the team in a worse spot and delays actually finding out what they have in him. I mean, do fans think the team isn't going to start a QB they moved up to get in the top 10 picks of round 1?

I understand you get upset when anyone talks about the possibility of sitting JJ another year. I get it, he's your boy. I just think it's fascinating that every time I read a take on the subject in the media, it's a different, opposite opinion. And it's not like smart people on one side and idiots on the other either. There's a good mix on both sides. I thought that was worth exploring. 

I think I outlined each option as I see them fairly and objectively, with the the positives and negatives of each. I didn't even take a position. But clearly I've hurt your feelings, and for that I apologize.

StickierBuns wrote:

Its not about being upset, its more about a completely unrealistic scenario which is what you laid out in your first point. lol, you didn't hurt my feelings. But if you want to disregard my point because you think I'm JJ fanboying, I can't stop you. I was on the Darnold train for quite awhile, until the inevitable happened. The point again is: if Minnesota resigned him to a 2 year contract, he played so well that teams would give up SO much comp, why would the Viking's trade him? Not sure anyone on the board fell harder in love with Uncle Sammy than you, sir. The heart wants what it wants. ;)

You're reeling. The Vikings would trade him because they can get a LOT in return if he comes back and plays well, dismissing the fears that suggest it was a one-year fluke. The Vikings would trade him because they already have their QBOTF in JJM. 

If Darnold comes back and puts together another season like 2024, with him fully under contract and at only 28 years old, his value skyrockets. Russell Wilson was in his middle 30s and coming off a down year, when he was traded for two 1sts and two 2nds. DeSean Watson had major legal issues when he was traded for three 1sts, two 4ths and a 3rd. If the Vikings truly are considering an extension for Sam, it's about this and only this.

That said, I think the likelihood of extending Sam are around 15-20%.

StickierBuns wrote:

Not sure what 'you're reeling' means, but again my point: why would a team, who was inclined to resign a guy that outperformed his bridge QB status, to a 2-year contract and then he AGAIN performed extremely well in the follow-up year ever considering trading the guy for an unknown quantity like McCarthy. You've moved from the anomaly of one good season to now hey he's backed that up with another great season, maybe we should see this as the trend and hold onto this dude. That's of course how Minnesota would view it. The QB examples you give are cautionary tales....along with the Kirk Cousins by Atlanta and Aaron Rodgers by the Jets. 

My point isn't Darnold isn't worthy of signing elsewhere for decent money or even that he may resign in Minnesota: my point is if he did resign with the Vikings, it wouldn't be to trade him halfway through a 2-deal for picks if he rocked it. They'd be idiots, IMO.

I think they believe in McCarthy. And I think they would love to surround him with multiple draft picks.

DArnold’s play was no mirage. You can believe what you see. If he has time he will carve you up. Did he play poorly under the brightest lights? Yeah- what was the common theme ? Opposing D’s getting pressure.

Been saying since week 5 or 6 if he continues playing great you need to offer him a contract. If I’m KAM, 2 years 50 or 60 million. If JJ beats him out, you just trade him for a #1 pick, or 2 #2’s.

The Tag is not an option in my view. Too much money and players hate it and Zygi is too classy. The Raiders will probs offer him a starting job, 30-35 per anyway so it’s likely he walks and we get jack shite.

Things we can't see, out here in fan-land:

1. Does the locker room believe in Sam, or are they impatient for JJM? Maybe both? Maybe Jones as the "CYA" option? What does the TEAM want, because KOC will respond.

2. Does Sam want his payday more than a chance to build on his best season?

3. Can Sam learn from his "floor" games, or is he what we've seen?

4. What has JJM shown in the classroom, in the meetings, in all the behind-the-scenes time?

5. Can the team retain its defensive upswing, strengthen its IOL and DT/CB situations, and still afford to pay $30-40 million for a playcaller?

These are the answers we wish we had.

Bullazin wrote:
DArnold’s play was no mirage. You can believe what you see. If he has time he will carve you up.  Did he play poorly under the brightest lights?  Yeah- what was the common theme ? Opposing D’s getting pressure. 

Been saying since week 5 or 6 if he continues playing great you need to offer him a contract. If I’m KAM, 2 years 50 or 60 million. If JJ beats him out, you just trade him for a #1 pick, or 2 #2’s. 

The Tag is not an option in my view.  Too much money and players hate it and Zygi is too classy.  The Raiders will probs offer him a starting job, 30-35 per anyway so it’s likely he walks and we get jack shite.

The Vikings may feel Darnold would be fine if they upgrade the O-line. The problem is, no matter how good your line is you can't constantly hold the ball for 4 seconds. I see Darnold as one of those QB's who is capable of being very good during the regular season but not so much in the playoffs when the competition is greater. Sounds a bit like Cousins!

The only way I see the Vikings signing Darnold is on a short term, team friendly contract as competition in training camp with JJM. That's not likely to happen.

hogjowlsjohnny wrote:

The Vikings may feel Darnold would be fine if they upgrade the O-line. The problem is, no matter how good your line is you can't constantly hold the ball for 4 seconds. I see Darnold as one of those QB's who is capable of being very good during the regular season but not so much in the playoffs when the competition is greater. Sounds a bit like Cousins!

The only way I see the Vikings signing Darnold is on a short term, team friendly contract as competition in training camp with JJM. That's not likely to happen.

I'd love to get some draft capital for Sam, but don't know the upside/downside/risk yet. I dont think the Vikings do either, not this early on. 

What I dont want to do is handicap the team financially ($15mm wont) and I dont want to deprive them from giving JJM every opportunity to grab the reigns and run with em. 

So I agree with the bolded, give McCarthy the chance to earn it in a QB competition.

Darnold will have a market in FA, too many teams with a need at QB and he's the best option in terms of recent production and age.

He's going to get a big enough offer in terms of money and term that the Vikings won't want to match because they want to get JJM on the field sooner rather than later.

I think Sam and his agent know that too. Maybe there is a way for the Vikings to work with him on a tag and trade since they rehabilitated his image and earned him some money. Something like the Vikings would accept fair trade compensation (not hold out for a major deal) and agree to deal him to the team of his choice.

I think that is the more likely option than getting him back on a short term deal.

If the Vikings want a QB to compete with JJ McCarthy, Daniel Jones makes more sense since we can probably get him on a 1-yr deal with assurances he would get a fair shot to compete to be the starter. If we franchise Darnold, you aren't paying him 41 million to be a backup.

I just don't think you divert from the original plan, which was to draft a rookie QB to build around and use the savings on a rookie contract and other cap saving moves to attack free agency and upgrade the roster over the next couple seasons. I appreciate what Darnold did, but I don't think you alter the original plan for a guy who completely shit the bed in the two most important games of the year and giving him a contract that would eat up half your cap savings that you could spend at other positions. The tag and trade scenario seems complicated and I don't see that playing out. The most likely scenario IMO, is we just let Darnold walk in free agency and we collect a compensatory
draft pick in 2026. We go into next season with McCarthy the projected starter and probably Daniel Jones as the backup.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
Darnold will have a market in FA, too many teams with a need at QB and he's the best option in terms of recent production and age.

He's going to get a big enough offer in terms of money and term that the Vikings won't want to match because they want to get JJM on the field sooner rather than later.

I think Sam and his agent know that too.  Maybe there is a way for the Vikings to work with him on a tag and trade since they rehabilitated his image and earned him some money.  Something like the Vikings would accept fair trade compensation (not hold out for a major deal) and agree to deal him to the team of his choice.

I think that is the more likely option than getting him back on a short term deal.

If the Vikings want a QB to compete with JJ McCarthy, Daniel Jones makes more sense since we can probably get him on a 1-yr deal with assurances he would get a fair shot to compete to be the starter.  If we franchise Darnold, you aren't paying him 41 million to be a backup.

I dont really understand the bolded part,  unless you are suggesting he would do it as a favor to the franchise,  but why would he not just enter FA,  sign with the team of his choosing, and do so while not costing his future club valuable draft picks?