Wonder whats happening with Kwesi?

Wilves’ should offer Howie Roseman a piece of the team to be our GM, Lol… :cool: :angel:

Kentis wrote:
Wilves’ should offer Howie Roseman a piece of the team to be our GM, Lol… :cool: :angel:

The same Howie Roseman that passed on Justin Jefferson?

The extension for KOC was easy based on his body of work the first three years on the job and navigating QBs left and right.

Kwesi isn't as clear cut. No one from his 2022 draft may get a second contract from us. He found two players in 2023 and hit on the Hockenson trade. Had a good FA class, but his 2024 draft resides largely on the success of JJM and Turner.

There have been some improvements but the body of work isn't as strong as KOC. I think the Wilfs are likely negotiating for a short-term extension rather than locking him in for 5 more years like they did with Kevin.

Greylock wrote:

The same Howie Roseman that passed on Justin Jefferson?

All GM’s miss on picks, this one however has his team in it’s 3rd Superbowl in the last, what 7 seasons. His roster’s have been amongst the best in the league for some time now, winning it all in 2018 & back for another shot this season. So yeah, the same Howie Roseman.   :D

There must be more going on at TCO than we know about. If it was just "Great job KAM, here's a new deal!" I think it would be done already, like when they (mistakenly) re-did Rick and Mike together after 2019.

My guess and it's only a guess is, it gets announced along with some changes, maybe a reorg of scouting (please dump Grigson!) etc. Indicating that he's done enough to stay on but improvements are still expected.

Well, KOC's extension supposedly came with increased personnel influence, that may have caused some complications.

MAD GAINZ wrote:
The extension for KOC was easy based on his body of work the first three years on the job and navigating QBs left and right. Kwesi isn't as clear cut.  No one from his 2022 draft may get a second contract from us.  He found two players in 2023 and hit on the Hockenson trade.  Had a good FA class, but his 2024 draft resides largely on the success of JJM and Turner. There have been some improvements but the body of work isn't as strong as KOC.  I think the Wilfs are likely negotiating for a short-term extension rather than locking him in for 5 more years like they did with Kevin.

I have not been able to find a heck of a lot re: KOC contract terms, how solid is that 5 years?

Little birdie was reporting 5 years, $60mm, but thats Walters.

Here is Pelissaro with Leber and Cove:

Cove: I assume some people know what the terms are, why does it not leak out faster than this?

Pelissero: Coach numbers are a little bit harder to come by. Not a surprise at all that that has not come out. That's pretty commonplace here. But I would fairly tell you based on what I know that the Vikings made it well worth Kevin O'Connell's while signing that extension.

Leber: Can you give us any insight on How many years it is? I'm assuming at least three...

Pelissero: Let's not throw darts, Leber, how about that? Let's just say, listen, it's a unique negotiation because you're talking about a guy who's still not even 40 years old and he's won two-thirds of his regular season games with a smattering of different quarterbacks, but has not won a playoff game. 

In terms of the top, top coaches and what they're making, the Andy Reids of the world, he's in a little bit different area. But again, based on what I know, I would say that the deal that they were able to get done with Kevin O'Connell was very fair under the circumstances.

According to Sportico, Reid signed a five-year, $100 million contract with the Chiefs last offseason. That made him the highest-paid coach in the NFL at $20 million annually.

The next highest-paid coaches, per Sportico, are Denver's Sean Payton ($18 million), Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin ($16 million), the Chargers' Jim Harbaugh ($16 million), and the Rams' Sean McVay ($15 million). San Francisco's Kyle Shanahan ($14 million), Baltimore's John Harbaugh ($12 million), Detroit's Dan Campbell ($11 million), Buffalo's Sean McDermott ($11 million) and Seattle's Mike Macdonald ($9 million).

Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio has reported that the Chicago Bears are paying new head coach Ben Johnson $13 million annually.

If you connect enough dots, it's pretty clear that O'Connell is making somewhere between $10 million and $15 million annually. Will we ever know for sure? Probably, but we might have to wait a while.

StickierBuns wrote:
My guess is Kwesi is getting an understanding of his station with the Vikings: the jury is still out big time. The Vikings shouldn't tie KAM to KOC and I'll bet that KOC feels that way as well. I'm going to guess the length of this extension with Kwesi is the holdup: he wants longer but the team doesn't.

I think you can tell by his public comments that is the case.  He was recently quoted as saying "he'd love to be the GM for this team" and "he works everyday like his job isn't guaranteed".

He's a smart guy and knows he's had his share of success at times but also some big failures. If you look back at the last 3 years, KOC elevated the previous regimes squad to 13-4.  The drop off in 2023 was due to Kirk Cousins blowing his Achilles mid-season, but also the 2nd year players from the 2022 draft didn't elevate the supporting cast around the team.  Then we had a good FA class to make up for literally all our rookies from 2022 being limited contributors or flat out busts.

Like I said, it's been an up and down tenure for him.  Our core is pretty young and signed for the next couple years but now Kwesi has a big decision on how to handle Darnold and the JJM transition.  How that unfolds and how the team performs next season will likely decide if he is hear long-term with KOC or the Wilfs ask for Kevin's input on a front office guy he wants to work with moving forward.

KOC's contract isn't being disclosed until after Kwesi's contract is figured out. I have to imagine he's back, but at a fraction of the value KOC got. KOC earned a bunch. Kwesi, I think it's hard to put him in the upper tier. We had good FA last time around, but not so much on the drafts. He's pretty much done a good job keeping us competitive while rebuilding.

Free Agents B (including undrafted)
Wins and Losses A
Salary Cap B+
Draft Picks F

It would be interesting to see more behind the scene on how things are working.

His drafting is a head scratcher. Turner for example. Gives up picks for a position that we have a ton of talent at. Flo couldnt seem to figure out how to get him on the field. Also trading within the division on draft day, its weird

It's no secret that I was not a fan of the Vikings hiring Kwesi. I'm not a believer in analytics being your primary background in the game of football when you are a GM. Zero scouting or personnel background and just limited overall experience. His first draft turned out to be the train wreck I said it was going to be and his drafts since then have been a mixed bag. His legacy going forward is going to be tied to what kind of players McCarthy and Dallas Turner turn out to be. He has been better in free agency where he can better evaluate known quantities and that's his wheelhouse. That's fine, but to me general managers earn their money in the draft identifying talent and replenishing the lifeblood of a organization. Three drafts in and we have a lot of misses and a lot of "yet to be determined." The team is on a good trajectory and you dont want to derail that, but you also don't want to make a mistake and re-up someone that hasn't proven he can identify draft talent. I think the smart move is to let it ride with Kwesi and see how this upcoming season plays out. That's not normally how it goes when you extend the head coach and not the general manager, but I think in this case that would be the prudent way you handle this.

Kwesi did have a good FA in 2024. How much of that was Flores though? They were Flores' players he brought in to fit his exact scheme. To me, it seemed more on the lines that Flores got his wish list that was given to Kwesi. Just my thoughts. I am fine with going up to get Turner. That part doesn't bother me, because I think his talent level is insane, and he started to show that the last quarter of the season.

Canthony wrote:
Kwesi did have a good FA in 2024. How much of that was Flores though? They were Flores' players he brought in to fit his exact scheme. To me, it seemed more on the lines that Flores got his wish list that was given to Kwesi. Just my thoughts. I am fine with going up to get Turner. That part doesn't bother me, because I think his talent level is insane, and he started to show that the last quarter of the season.

A good GM will take input from his coaches and scouts then go acquire talent with the right contract structure to protect the team. Thats exactly what KAM did last FA period. 

So I guess I am of the mindset to give him credit for that vs he had little to do with it. 

Like many have already said, the big pause is drafts. Its not a just a KAM issue though, there is probably something systemically wrong organizationally and/or Grigson and staff are near incompetent.

purplefaithful wrote:

A good GM will take input from his coaches and scouts then go acquire talent with the right contract structure to protect the team. Thats exactly what KAM did last FA period. 

So I guess I am of the mindset to give him credit for that vs he had little to do with it. 

The big pause is drafts. Its not a just a KAM issue though, there is probably something systemically wrong and/or Grigson and staff are near incompetent.

He isn't a good GM. Take this with a grain of salt, a good GM would have been present when doing the final 53-man roster in 2024. I have a hard time believing him and KOC have a good working relationship. If they did, I would assume this extension would be final by now. We will see when KOC contract details come out. I have a feeling he will have a ton more say over Kwesi.

Canthony wrote:

He isn't a good GM. Take this with a grain of salt, a good GM would have been present when doing the final 53-man roster in 2024. I have a hard time believing him and KOC have a good working relationship. If they did, I would assume this extension would be final by now. We will see when KOC contract details come out. I have a feeling he will have a ton more say over Kwesi.

Oh I'm not claiming he is. They both seem like pretty eAsy going guys vs Zimm/RS kind of situation. 

But these things are kept from the public until they cant hide it anymore so who knows. 

We'll learn a lot more if/when they strike a deal with KAM. His role and KOC role may very well be evolving and that wouldn't surprise me either.

To keep winning, Vikings need to end streak of bad drafts and build with youth

Can Vikings keep winning without succeeding in NFL draft?

EAGAN, Minn. -- Since hiring general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah in 2022, the Minnesota Vikings have compiled the NFL's sixth-best winning percentage -- almost exclusively with players drafted by his predecessor or other teams. That unique collection of circumstances will hover over the franchise this offseason and prompt an unusual football question: Can a team build a sustained winner independent of draft outcomes?

As they compiled a 34-17 record (.667) from 2022 to 2024, the Vikings had 107 starts from players drafted during that period. It was the NFL's second-lowest total over that time frame, according to ESPN Research. The Miami Dolphins were the only team with fewer (31), but their scope was limited by league discipline that forced them to forfeit a first-round pick in 2023 and a third-rounder in 2024.

Adofo-Mensah covered for that draft performance with a stellar free agent class in 2024 that included three Pro Bowlers and 12 players who made at least one start, leaving the Vikings to finish the season with the NFL's oldest team based on age-weighted snap count. But as he prepares to lead his fourth offseason with the franchise, amid what ESPN's Adam Schefter has reported are contract extension talks with team ownership, Adofo-Mensah will have a narrow opportunity to pursue the lifeblood of most successful organizations: replenishing with young talent.

The Vikings have three 2025 draft picks (with one more likely coming via the NFL's compensatory system), which puts them on track to select the second-fewest players among NFL teams in the four drafts between 2022 and 2025, per ESPN Research projections. Asked earlier this month if he thinks he should make any changes to his draft process, Adofo-Mensah initially said "it's amazing that I get asked these questions," but later added that the team is "always" trying to get better.

"I'm really confident with how our group has grown and evolved over those years," Adofo-Mensah said. " a first-time GM, I think there were things that I've grown at as a leader, as an ability to kind of understand the information that I'm being given. When to press buttons and say, 'This needs to be different.' Or when to kind of sit back and take other people's input. I think I've grown just kind of exponentially in that regard and I'm excited about this draft."

One way the group has evolved is that the Vikings' coaching staff inserted itself into the process over the past two seasons, with Adofo-Mensah's blessing. Coach Kevin O'Connell pushed hard to select receiver Jordan Addison with the No. 23 overall pick in 2023, and O'Connell led the evaluation that resulted in the selection of quarterback J.J. McCarthy at No. 10 overall in 2024.

This month, many around the NFL took note of the Vikings' priorities when O'Connell was the first to receive a contract extension, announced eight days after the team was eliminated from the playoffs. But owners Zygi and Mark Wilf did not make any changes to the team's structure or operation as part of O'Connell's new deal, a team source confirmed, meaning Adofo-Mensah remains the team's primary football executive.

Adofo-Mensah acknowledged his poor 2022 class after waiving first-round safety Lewis Cine and trading second-round cornerback Andrew Booth Jr., saying he tried to fill too many of the team's needs in one draft. Guard Ed Ingram, another second-round pick that year, was benched midseason after the Vikings gave him 2 1/2 seasons to develop. All told, the Vikings can count one impact player (Addison) and one consistent offensive or defensive contributor (receiver Jalen Nailor) among the 19 players they've drafted since the start of 2022.

As always, context is important. McCarthy suffered a season-ending knee injury last summer, as did cornerback Mekhi Blackmon, a third-round pick in 2023 who likely would have been a key player this season. Promising cornerback Khyree Jackson, a fourth-round pick in 2024, was killed in a car crash before training camp. And Will Reichard, a 2024 sixth-round pick, was the team's primary kicker this season.

But Adofo-Mensah put a historic level of faith in acquiring linebacker Dallas Turner, trading six picks and using a seventh to draft him No. 17 overall last spring. At the time, the Vikings had already signed linebackers Jonathan Greenard and Andrew Van Ginkel in free agency. Both started all 17 games and made the Pro Bowl, while Turner played only 315 defensive snaps (26.8%). A total of 51 rookies around the NFL played more.

"I understood the veteran locker room I was coming into," Turner said at the end of the season, "and my job was just be a rookie and be a sponge."

When he did get on the field, Turner produced 17 tackles, three sacks and eight pressures. It was fair to expect a more immediate impact from a player who required so much draft capital to acquire, but Flores made a startling comparison to Pittsburgh Steelers defensive lineman Cameron Heyward in October. Heyward was a first-round pick in 2011 who did not become a starter until his third season.

"I know the world is such where everybody wants instant gratification today and tomorrow," Adofo-Mensah said, speaking generally. "And that's not how the good teams are built. They address wants before they are wants. You try and find unique opportunities when you can."

The Vikings have put together seasons of 13 and 14 wins since hiring Adofo-Mensah and O'Connell, augmenting a solid core of players with effective free agent signings and trades. But it is difficult to sustain winning with other teams' discards.

The Kansas City Chiefs, for example, have benefited from 286 starts among players drafted between 2022 and 2024, more than twice the Vikings' total. The Chiefs are headed to their fifth Super Bowl in the past six seasons. There are many ways to build a championship team, but the Vikings have dug themselves a deep hole if they hope to emulate a similar draft-based model.

ESPN

"I know the world is such where everybody wants instant gratification today and tomorrow," Adofo-Mensah said, speaking generally. "And that's not how the good teams are built. They address wants before they are wants. You try and find unique opportunities when you can."

Good teams are built through acquisition of players with talent instead of giving up too much draft capital to acquire players with potential.
Most teams that give up as much draft capital as Kwesi did to acquire Turner, are able to identify players with the talent to insert into the starting lineup and produce from day one.
Turner may become all we hope for, but it was odd to select someone that high who would mostly ride the pine.
Not talking specifically about Turner, but Kwesi needs to do better at player evaluations.

The worst thing that happened for Turners productivity is that Kwesi also brought in Greenard and Van Ginkel who both made the Pro Bowl this year. I suppose there is an alternate reality, where we just went with Greenard and Turner, and Turner looks pretty good and everyone is praising his drafting prowess, but the team is worse. While I think, we’re all happy with Van Ginkel’s performance, no one really predicted his level of success this year, or we would have paid him a lot more. Getting a premiere edge rusher in the draft is not usually on the list of things we complain about.

medaille wrote:
The worst thing that happened for Turners productivity is that Kwesi also brought in Greenard and Van Ginkel who both made the Pro Bowl this year.  I suppose there is an alternate reality, where we just went with Greenard and Turner, and Turner looks pretty good and everyone is praising his drafting prowess, but the team is worse.  While I think, we’re all happy with Van Ginkel’s performance, no one really predicted his level of success this year, or we would have paid him a lot more.  Getting a premiere edge rusher in the draft is not usually on the list of things we complain about.

Sure, but depending on what happens with Darnold, we could very well be in a position where neither 2024 FRP, both of whom we traded up for, are starting players in year 2. That doesn't mean they're bad, you just really hope they're worth the wait and the resources at that point. I think both will be, but it will be nice once we know for sure.

I give KAM a pass on the first draft(22), new team, _onatell, and I'll assume the core of Zimmer and Spielman's scouting staff.  In 23 Addison and Blackmon, 24 JJ, Turner, Jackson, Rouse, Reichard, Jurgens and LDR.  So from my optimistic view point, he's had two totally owned drafts, and their both TBD. I am still optimistic that he is learning and would hate to loose what he gained from those lessons