We really picked Turner over Jared Verse??

Canthony wrote:

He has won every level he has played. I have explained this Turner vs Verse with this dude multiple times. Hes 4 years older. Turner was known he will take time to come into his own body. He was 20. Verse is 4 years older. JJ is a winner and has won at every level. Has that factor to him. You know, the things you can't teach. I would take Turner every time over Verse. Turner should have went 8th overall at his age. Not Verse. Dudes just a clown.

How many times do I need to prove that you are wrong. JJ was put out with 2's on offense against the 1's on defense and JJ outplayed Darnold. As a 21 year old fucking rookie. They never did that again in camp. Why? Because they knew what they had.

JimmyinSD wrote:

You might be right,  hell hedging on the side of failure puts the odds in your favor,  but like it or not he is the future of this franchise and with Darnold returning to the mean the last half of the season... that future with JJM will start soon.

This tape is alarming to me not once did look past his first option, panicked and threw three terrible interceptions!  That was amateur hour against a team like bowling Green come on man that’s ridiculous. 

He was a caretaker in college - doubt he’s even in the league 10 years from now. I’m a diehard Viking fan and will be pulling for him if he plays next year but I would say there’s a 10% chance if even that he’s successful.

Let’s face it - the general managers drafting has been simply atrocious, and I’m supposed to trust the quarterback he drafted when he was merely a caretaker at Michigan. He was along for the ride the FEW times he was asked to do anything He peed down his leg.

JimmyinSD wrote:

he played for about 3 years ( 44 games, started 24) ,  averaged about 1 sack every 4 games,  a QB hit every 2 games,  and about 2 tackles per game.  IIRC there was a lot of talk at the time about him being a bust of a pick compared to the hype that he came in with.  I dont think he was on the verge of much, maybe I am mis-remembering, but he certainly wasnt a player that was likely to make my list of great defensive linemen for the Vikings,  just another nice piece at best.

Maybe I am misremembering... I just remember he had that knee injury through his first two years until he decided to have surgery, which was botched from I remember, and it ended his career. I think he had a lawsuit for it too against Andrews I thought. I just remember a lot of talk saying he was the perfect 3 tech for Zimmer and that he wasn't being used correctly before Zimmer. Well, he never got that chance. That may be what I remember the talk about. The "thought" of him being used in the right system and the center piece of Zims defense.

For the last 3 years it is painfully obvious that Kwesi should have not been in position to run a draft. The argument of Turner being 4 years younger is not a valid one, when you are picking that hight in the draft for a non-QB, it has to be an immediate impact player, not a guy you are grooming. Then take the fact you also gave up a 3rd, 4th and 5th to move up to get him and that is a lot of picks that could have been used on a really poor OL and DL.

Canthony wrote:

Maybe I am misremembering... I just remember he had that knee injury through his first two years until he decided to have surgery, which was botched from I remember, and it ended his career. I think he had a lawsuit for it too against Andrews I thought. I just remember a lot of talk saying he was the perfect 3 tech for Zimmer and that he wasn't being used correctly before Zimmer. Well, he never got that chance. That may be what I remember the talk about. The "thought" of him being used in the right system and the center piece of Zims defense.

IMO the biggest thing that made Zimmers D work was a space eater at DT that demanded a double to allow his double A blitz to work,  when Joseph was at his peak was when Zimmers D was at its best.  Dont get me wrong,  you can never go wrong with a big man that can move creating pressure in the QBs face allowing the LB to drop in coverage,  but I just never really got the "ready to explode" from Floyd ( funny thing is though... IIRC I was defending him against those calling him a bust back in the day,  I thought he could be more,  just wasnt finding it in Minny)

JR44 wrote:
For the last 3 years it is painfully obvious that Kwesi should have not been in position to run a draft.  The argument of Turner being 4 years younger is not a valid one, when you are picking that hight in the draft for a non-QB, it has to be an immediate impact player, not a guy you are grooming.  Then take the fact you also gave up a 3rd, 4th and 5th to move up to get him and that is a lot of picks that could have been used on a really poor OL and DL.

I see your point. Turner was really coming on the last 6 games. It took him a bit, but I believe he got there. His pass rushing skills are next to no one IMO. Flores has a complex defense as well. Turner did struggle with getting it. The last 4 games he had a 60% pressure rate (next gen stats), when in the game, which is really impressive and that I think says a lot of what we are going to see moving forward. Many experts and NexGen say he has it and is just scratching the surface. 

Remember Chris Doleman? 3.5 sacks his first two years combined. I don't see Turner taking that long. I think he will be huge out the gate come 2025.

JR44 wrote:
For the last 3 years it is painfully obvious that Kwesi should have not been in position to run a draft.  The argument of Turner being 4 years younger is not a valid one, when you are picking that hight in the draft for a non-QB, it has to be an immediate impact player, not a guy you are grooming.  Then take the fact you also gave up a 3rd, 4th and 5th to move up to get him and that is a lot of picks that could have been used on a really poor OL and DL.

personally.. I would extend KOC,  but KAM would have to wait until after the upcoming FA and draft.  He has shown the ability to move chess pieces, but hasnt shown that he knows how the game is played.  He totally screwed up his first draft,  didnt do much his second ( although getting Cheech Addison as a back up plan to JJ was a good move IMO ) and this last one...well he saw something he liked and went after it and time will tell,  but I still wouldnt offer him an extension until I see how he handles this offseason.

JimmyinSD wrote:

IMO the biggest thing that made Zimmers D work was a space eater at DT that demanded a double to allow his double A blitz to work,  when Joseph was at his peak was when Zimmers D was at its best.  Dont get me wrong,  you can never go wrong with a big man that can move creating pressure in the QBs face allowing the LB to drop in coverage,  but I just never really got the "ready to explode" from Floyd ( funny thing is though... IIRC I was defending him against those calling him a bust back in the day,  I thought he could be more,  just wasnt finding it in Minny)

No doubt you are correct with Joseph. I will play the other side though, we never had that 3T that was needed. The 3T is what Zimmers defense revolved around. Could you imagine Donald, which Zimmer wanted over Barr but Ricks an idiot, in Zimmers defense? It would have been insane. Pressure with your front 4 is what his defense predicated on, and that in return, made his CBs. That strong pass rushing 3T is what we were always missing with Zimmer.

JR44 wrote:
For the last 3 years it is painfully obvious that Kwesi should have not been in position to run a draft.  The argument of Turner being 4 years younger is not a valid one, when you are picking that hight in the draft for a non-QB, it has to be an immediate impact player, not a guy you are grooming.  Then take the fact you also gave up a 3rd, 4th and 5th to move up to get him and that is a lot of picks that could have been used on a really poor OL and DL.

It's possible that Turner was picked over Verse because the team didn't figure on being competitive this season. Therefore, they selected the younger player figuring that when their competitive window opened Turner would just be entering his prime.

Canthony wrote:

No doubt you are correct with Joseph. I will play the other side though, we never had that 3T that was needed. The 3T is what Zimmers defense revolved around. Could you imagine Donald, which Zimmer wanted over Barr but Ricks an idiot, in Zimmers defense? It would have been insane. Pressure with your front 4 is what his defense predicated on, and that in return, made his CBs. That strong pass rushing 3T is what we were always missing with Zimmer.

wasnt it Zimmer that was in love with Barr?

Knucklehead wrote:

It's possible that Turner was picked over Verse because the team didn't figure on being competitive this season. Therefore, they selected the younger player figuring that when their competitive window opened Turner would just be entering his prime.

I didn't think of this angle. That makes a ton of sense, however. Let's face it though, Tuner was always slotted to go before Verse. It wasn't like we reached for Turner. Not even close. I don't think the Vikings ever thought we could get Turner at 17.

JimmyinSD wrote:

wasnt it Zimmer that was in love with Barr?

From what I remember is that Zimmer wanted Donald to run the 3T. I heard that from some draft guys a few years back. I don't know what that was with Barr and Zimmer. I know Zimmer loved him as a person. They were close there. He just never used Barr near the way he was supposed to be. Zimmer was such a square peg round hole guy at times I swear.

Barr over Donald was a huge miss. Donald was a clear generational talent going into the draft. It was obvious. Should have drafted Donald, regardless of what Floyd did.

Turner and Verse were equally well liked going into the draft. Turner is tailor-made for Flores scheme. Verse looks like a huge stud now. Not sure if you could ask him to drop into coverage like the Vikings would want, but regardless, he'd probably still look similar to Turner on the Vikings, where he'd be behind Greenard and Van Ginkle and not get the playing time he is in LA. It be interesting to see how it would have played out if they didn't trade up for Turner. The trade up is the part I have more beef with.

JR44 wrote:
For the last 3 years it is painfully obvious that Kwesi should have not been in position to run a draft.  The argument of Turner being 4 years younger is not a valid one, when you are picking that hight in the draft for a non-QB, it has to be an immediate impact player, not a guy you are grooming.  Then take the fact you also gave up a 3rd, 4th and 5th to move up to get him and that is a lot of picks that could have been used on a really poor OL and DL.

Again, I think Turner was the youngest player in the draft and despite all the athletic ability he wasn't going to overtake or take snaps away from either AVG or Greenard, who were veterans and played at Pro Bowl levels all year long. He was asked to do a lot in this complex Flores scheme that he wasn't asked to do at Alabama, including dropping into various coverages. At the end of the regular season Turner finished with 3 sacks to Verse's 4.5 sacks. I have complete confidence Turner continues to develope his all around game and comes back in 2025 a much better player.

medaille wrote:
Barr over Donald was a huge miss.  Donald was a clear generational talent going into the draft.  It was obvious.  Should have drafted Donald, regardless of what Floyd did.

I don't think it was clear, as Donald was drafted 13th and at least half the players drafted before him were busts. There were worries about his size and if he'd hold up against the run. I watched him play a couple times when Notre Dame played Pitt and Donald did nothing and got washed out several times in the run game. He turned out to be one of the best players ever...but it wasn't clear that was going to be the case and Anthony Barr was a multi time Pro Bowl player for us.

Verse is a certified dog. Love him. I'm not getting the dog vibe from Dallas Turner. I'm holding off total judgement until I see Turner put on some muscle weight for '25, because he needs it. KAM has to bear some responsibility for his draft picks or lack OF draft picks.

medaille wrote:
Barr over Donald was a huge miss.  Donald was a clear generational talent going into the draft.  It was obvious.  Should have drafted Donald, regardless of what Floyd did.

Turner and Verse were equally well liked going into the draft.  Turner is tailor-made for Flores scheme.  Verse looks like a huge stud now.  Not sure if you could ask him to drop into coverage like the Vikings would want, but regardless, he'd probably still look similar to Turner on the Vikings, where he'd be behind Greenard and Van Ginkle and not get the playing time he is in LA.  It be interesting to see how it would have played out if they didn't trade up for Turner.  The trade up is the part I have more beef with.

It wasn't obvious to a lot of people on this board. We had countless debates about Donald. He was the best draft prospect I'd ever seen (even over Randy Moss) and I've been following the draft since the late 70s. It wasn't just his talent and ridiculous quickness and athleticism. His character and work ethic were off the charts as well. 

People thought I was nuts when I said I would've taken him 1st overall over Clowney. Most argued that he was just too small...that "he'd never beat a double team in the NFL." I'd then show clips of him beating a triple team at Pitt. Still, people were unconvinced. That thread got to be about 10 pages long. 

Another common argument was that we had just drafted our 3T the year before in Sharrif Floyd, which is an argument I would typically buy, but not in this case. Donald was just that good.

JimmyinSD wrote:


Jordan Davis and Kyle Hamilton are going to haunt KAM as long as he is with this team IMO.  Passing on those 2 and having nothing to show for it is a hard line to erase from your resume.

JimmyinSD wrote:


I dont recall Floyd ever really having enough of an impact that suggested he needed to be replaced.  The potential was there, but I dont recall it ever being close to realized.