The Elephant in the Room

StickierBuns wrote:

Darnold is not fixed, he is playing better. More season to play and playoffs to either crown him or not.

40% weapons, 40% scheme, 20% coaching. That's what it is and any argument to the contrary is just wrong.  :P

AGRforever wrote:
Do you guys realize Sammy is set to out preform Randall Cunningham (although in more games) in the '98 season?

Cunningham:        3704 yards, 34TD, 10INts 106 Rating
The Darnold: YTD  3299 yards, 28TD, 10INts 108.1 Rating
Darnold projected: 4313 yards, 36Td, 13Ints

Darnold in 15 games (What Cunningham played in 98): 3806 yards, 32Tds, 11.5Ints

For fun, Daunte Culpepper 2004: 4717yards, 39TD, 11 Ints, 110.9rating.  Probably the greatest season ever in the history of Vikings QB'ing.  Sammy will end up just short.  He was supposed to be a stopgap who won 6.5 games.

Yeah it seems like people are still expecting the bottom to fall out at any moment. I don't think that will happen.

M-V-P!

pattersaur wrote:

Yeah it seems like people are still expecting the bottom to fall out at any moment. I don't think that will happen.

M-V-P!

Still 4 weeks to go, but that 6 td performance from Allen makes him a serious top contender. 

Goff has to be a top 3-4 consideration and then you have Barkley who's eyeing the record that Dickerson has held forever.

pattersaur wrote:

Yeah it seems like people are still expecting the bottom to fall out at any moment. I don't think that will happen.

M-V-P!

I've been saying that since week 5. What is making Darnold so good is coaching, scheme and weapons. None of those are going anywhere. Now, does that mean he's not going to throw up a stinker every now and then? Of course not. He will, just like Goff and Mahomes and Love and everyone else. But it's time to get rid of the Good Sam, Bad Sam thing. Bad Sam is dead. Long live the Goddamn Ginger Jesus.

pattersaur wrote:

Yeah it seems like people are still expecting the bottom to fall out at any moment. I don't think that will happen.

M-V-P!

I loved me some Keenum so its quite possible I just have very shaded purple glasses.  What I don't see from Sammy that I did see from Keenum was the chuck it and pray passes.  Sammy looks to be much more accurate.  He also seems to have gotten rid of those at a minimum one per game boneheaded mistakes that defined his career prior to MN and followed him the first 8 games. 

He had a bad game vs the Jags but I think that hit to the ribs early is what caused it that week.

MaroonBells wrote:

I've been saying that since week 5. What is making Darnold so good is coaching, scheme and weapons. None of those are going anywhere. Now, does that mean he's not going to throw up a stinker every now and then? Of course not. He will, just like Goff and Mahomes and Love and everyone else. But it's time to get rid of the Good Sam, Bad Sam thing. Bad Sam is dead. Long live the Goddamn Ginger Jesus.

Could be right...I'd like to see more though myself. 

The one thing Darnold doesnt get enough credit for is being a stone cold killer...Ice in the veins. 

I normally reserve that for Reichard, but Sammy's got that in his make-up and it separates him from Cousins in a big way.

I just keep thinking what this offense would look like with JJ McCarthy. I love what Sam is doing for us this year, but I absolutely think JJ McCarthy can be even better in this offense with his cannon arm, accuracy, and he has a lot more running/scrambling ability than Darnold.

Listening to a lot of the pundits this morning discussing this very subject. It sounds like the consensus is the Vikings let Darnold walk in free agency and the Vikings roll into next season with McCarthy starting and Daniel Jones as the backup. Bill Polian pointing out that Kwesi is an analytics guy, and the analytics say the advantage is having a quarterback on a rookie contract, which Kwesi has talked about and I don't think he moves off that despite the Darnold turnaround. Jones was signed as a contingency and I doubt that happens if Darnold was in their long term plans with McCarthy waiting in the wings. Things could change if say the Vikings go to the Super Bowl and Darnold plays lights out, but it would probably take something like that for the Vikings to move off "the plan" for next season.

To me, best case scenario is Darnold continues to play well and the Vikings are able to somehow parlay his success into draft pick compensation

The only daft pick compensation we're getting is a potential comp pick when Sammy gets his bag. I do think we'll bring in other bigger name FAs again and they'll cover any bag Sammy gets though. I don't think we're getting anything in return other then a fun year when its all said and done.

supafreak84 wrote:
Listening to a lot of the pundits this morning discussing this very subject. It sounds like the consensus is the Vikings let Darnold walk in free agency and the Vikings roll into next season with McCarthy starting and Daniel Jones as the backup. Bill Polian pointing out that Kwesi is an analytics guy, and the analytics say the advantage is having a quarterback on a rookie contract, which Kwesi has talked about and I don't think he moves off that despite the Darnold turnaround. Jones was signed as a contingency and I doubt that happens if Darnold was in their long term plans with McCarthy waiting in the wings. Things could change if say the Vikings go to the Super Bowl and Darnold plays lights out, but it would probably take something like that for the Vikings to move off "the plan" for next season.

To me, best case scenario is Darnold continues to play well and the Vikings are able to somehow parlay his success into draft pick compensation

A lot of people, including me, thought the Vikings and Darnold would be middling at best this year before the season, and it's clearly going to take a LOT to convince people to move all the way off their preconceptions. We're 11-2 and I don't think I've heard one prominent media member say we can win the Super Bowl or heck, even get there. We're 11-2!

As to your best case scenario- I'd be fine with that for sure! I'd just hate to see him walk for squat.

StickierBuns wrote:

I want to see JJM running the show, but Sammy certainly has played very well at times. The possibility of JJ being a truly elite, franchise QB completely molded by KOC fresh like peeling back the plastic on a new iPhone is intriguing to me.

According to
@DWolfsonKSTP he believes #Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell wants to see how JJ McCarthy will play out in Minnesota, he mentioned on
@SKORNorth “I think in the end, you shake Sam’s hand, you thank him… and congratulate him on the monster contract he will sign in Vegas, the Giants, you name the franchise. You see Sam move on, Kevin then gets to work with his first round QB.”

Makes sense, sure wouldn't surprise me if that's how the dust settled. 

I dont know what their cap limitations are, but I could see adding Titans and Saints to the list of teams who might want to run with Sam. 

And I dont know how many "true franchise" QB's there will this draft??? Maybe two? Beck sure isnt one of em anymore.

purplefaithful wrote:

Makes sense, sure wouldn't surprise me if that's how the dust settled. 

I dont know what their cap limitations are, but I could see adding Titans and Saints to the list of teams who might want to run with Sam. 

And I dont know how many "true franchise" QB's there will this draft??? Maybe two? Beck sure isnt one of em anymore.

Popular opinion is the Saints probably have 2-3 years of cap purging before they can be competitive again.  Maybe they want a QB, but I think the prudent thing would be wait and find one in a couple years.  Realistically, how much better is Darnold going to do in NO beyond what Carr is doing?  If we let Darnold go to the Saints, and they paid him $40M and we paid Carr $25M a year, Carr would look much better for us than Darnold does with the nobody cast in NO.

If I were the Saints, I'd probably be trading 2025 picks to get more 2026 picks and hope to get draft capital for a time when QBs are more available.

It's possible Darnold could regress next year and that this year is an outlier, like Case Keenum 2017.

It's also possible that a huge contract and big expectations could derail Darnold next year. Some guys do better in the backup or bridge role because there isn't the real pressure that gets put on a high dollar starter.

It's possible (I'd say likely) that put on a team without the coaching structure and targets he has here, that Darnold might look pretty bad next year.

I'm certain that KOC wants to develop JJM and be joined at the hip with him for a decade or more. I'm also pretty certain he and KAM constructed a plan and even a wild outlier result from 2024 Sam Darnold isn't going to move them off of it.

It'll be a buyer beware with Sam for sure...I have no doubt he's improved mechanically and in between the ears too. But replicating this surround, coaching etc. is only possible in a few franchises.

Not sure how many of those are in the mkt for a starting caliber qb?

Sam has made over $65m in his NFL career. That's generational wealth. Our only hope to keep Sam in purple is he is not chasing the bag.

If getting the big contract is important to him, and he continues to play well down the stretch, Vikings brass has to consider the franchise tag and trade option.

NorseFeathers wrote:
Sam has made over $65m in his NFL career. That's generational wealth. Our only hope to keep Sam in purple is he is not chasing the bag.

If getting the big contract is important to him, and he continues to play well down the stretch, Vikings brass has to consider the franchise tag and trade option.

If you go the Franchise and trade route, that will change the dialog on the nurturing nature of the Vikings and the QB whisperer by taking it all out of the players control.  For instance...signing and trading him back to the Jets.  

KOC should know whether Daniel Jones is a viable replacement before we have to do anything drastic with Darnold.

Moved to another thread