Forum The Longship Now we'll see; will the plan work?

Now we'll see; will the plan work?

purplefaithful
Joined May 2013
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Pro Football Reference's Approximate Value metric was created in an attempt to value the production of any player, at any position and from any NFL season, with a single number. Of the 1,035 players drafted from 2020 to 2023, 66 have produced at least one NFL season with an Approximate Value of 10 or more. 

Thirteen of those players are receivers; defensive back is the only other position group with as many.

Justin Jefferson, whose rookie contract was replaced this week by one worth $140 million over four years, is one of seven players with three such seasons, after the Vikings took him 22nd overall in 2020 with the pick they acquired for trading Stefon Diggs to Buffalo. The quick production of young receivers across the league could be used to advance the argument that, with such a surplus at the position, there's no need to pay a player like Jefferson the premium the Vikings agreed to give him.

When presented with that argument Tuesday, Vikings General Manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah responded with a thesis on how the Vikings build their roster.

"I have been in places where they have specific calculations for how much a player's worth," he said. "Those are tougher in football as compared to baseball, just because of the interaction between teammates and things like that. But I do know those numbers, and obviously I have in our calculations. And then you can kind of look at the market: What does the market typically pay for things like that? There's also ways to do it, relative value-wise: Would I rather have a quarterback at this level or a wide receiver at this level or a rusher at this level? But at the end of the day, studying teams that have gotten to the NFC Championship , AFC Championship , Super Bowl level, there's a certain amount of talent that it requires.

"How you get to that answer, there's a lot of different things: draft picks and different things like that. We try and compare, when we have to pay for premier players, what is that compared to other teams when they compare their players, and are we getting the right production out of that?"

The draft is the most efficient way to boost talent, Adofo-Mensah added, "but re-signing your own is typically the second best, right? Because then free agency is its own deal, and you have to pay a premium to the market. And then lastly is, people have to trade. So with that kind of hierarchy, we look at these deals as still pretty favorable to the team, when you're extending your own."

https://www.startribune.com/vikings-justin-jefferson-contract-kwesi-adofo-mensah-salary-cap/600372060/

The Jefferson deal was the final bold stroke of an 85-day stretch that changed the foundation of the franchise. From March 11 to June 3, the Vikings:

• Let their starting quarterback and top pass rusher leave in free agency;

• Signed 14 unrestricted free agents, including a starting running back, three starting linebackers and a starting cornerback;

• Traded up to select a quarterback in the top 10 for the first time in franchise history;

• Traded up again to take a pass rusher in the first round for the first time since 2005;

• Made their top receiver the highest-paid nonquarterback in NFL history with a deal that includes nearly $70 million in cash through the first two years.

In dollars and draft picks, they paid dearly for players they hope can anchor the franchise. If it works, the Vikings might have given themselves a window for contention.

They now have players at three of the game's five most important positions (quarterback, pass rusher and wide receiver) under team control through 2028, with a contract extension for left tackle Christian Darrisaw possibly on the way. Even after signing J.J. McCarthy and Dallas Turner to their rookie deals, the Vikings will have about $21 million in available cap space for the rest of 2024, with the ability to add any unused cap space to the $50 million-plus they're expected to have in 2025.

Though Jefferson's deal includes a $36.94 million signing bonus and a $30 million option bonus in 2025, he'll count just $8.61 million against this year's cap and has only a $15.167 million number for 2025. His cap number jumps to nearly $39 million in 2026, before going to almost $44 million in 2027 and $47.49 million in 2028, but the Vikings included a void year at the end of the deal to help with a possible restructure, as they did with T.J. Hockenson's contract last year. They'll also be able to carry the deal's biggest cap charges before they have to pay McCarthy, whose cap number stays below $7 million through 2027 before his fifth-year option would hit in 2028. The cap numbers in the first four years of Turner's rookie deal would top out at $5.02 million in 2027 (before a fifth-year option).

Decisions on the futures of Jefferson, McCarthy, Turner, Hockenson, Jordan Addison and Jonathan Greenard arrive between 2027 and 2028. If McCarthy is successful, the Vikings could face the kind of choice the Packers faced between Aaron Rodgers and Davante Adams, or the Chiefs had between Patrick Mahomes and Tyreek Hill. But those decisions are far enough down the road not to concern the Vikings now. "You have two-year timelines; in the NFL, you probably can't plan any longer than that," Adofo-Mensah said.

They will be judged on whether the calls they made on core pieces such as McCarthy and Turner were correct. Though Kirk Cousins' deal with Atlanta could net them a third-round compensatory pick, they currently have just three picks in 2025. They still have questions to answer on defense, particularly at cornerback, and they face a division well stocked with young talent.

But there's a line that cuts through a dizzying offseason, to a clearing where the Vikings have young, affordable talent at the most important positions for several years. If the final seasons of the Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer era were marked by attempts to hold it all together with familiar veterans, Adofo-Mensah and O'Connell have taken a different approach.

They have arrived at the juncture that will determine whether it worked.

"I walked into a team that I thought, Kevin thought, could win in Year 1," Adofo-Mensah said. "But ultimately, we knew we had to get to this place. We're not patting ourselves on the back here; that's not how this is. We're happy with our plan, but plans don't get you far in this league. It's showing up here every day on the grass and getting better, and then me going in with my staff and trying to improve the team as best we can."

Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger! 

#1 · Jun 8, 3:26 PM
purplefaithful
Joined May 2013
3,478 posts
Rep: 4,143

lofl, I used to watch A Team...

24 will be their signature draft; for better or worse.

I agree on KAM - I need to see a few more drafts b4 I make up my mind with certainty.

edited Jun 9, 2024 5:04 AM

Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger! 

#2 · Jun 9, 4:53 AM
Montana Tom
Joined May 2013
686 posts
Rep: 1,239

Which begs the rhetorical question: Would you rather have a draft with an NFL-record 15 picks in 7 rounds like Spielman had in 2020 or a draft like 2024? To put it into perspective, yes, we got JJ in that draft. But after that:
Jeff Gladney
Ezra Cleveland
Cam Dantzler
DJ Wonnum
James Lynch
Troy Dye
Harrison Hand
KJ Osborne
Blake Brandel
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekies
Nate Stanley
Brian Cole
Kyle Hinton

Plus, don't forget about the current regime's history of UDFA's, starting with Ivan Pace Jr last year. Too early to tell this year, although there are some bright shiny pennies in there.

edited Jun 9, 2024 5:54 AM
#3 · Jun 9, 5:51 AM
WA
Joined Jan 2018
628 posts
Rep: 157
Montana Tom wrote:
Which begs the rhetorical question:  Would you rather have a draft with an NFL-record 15 picks in 7 rounds like Spielman had in 2020 or a draft like 2024?  To put it into perspective, yes, we got JJ in that draft.  But after that: Jeff Gladney Ezra Cleveland Cam Dantzler DJ Wonnum James Lynch Troy Dye Harrison Hand KJ Osborne Blake Brandel Josh Metellus Kenny Willekies Nate Stanley Brian Cole Kyle Hinton

Plus, don't forget about the current regime's history of UDFA's, starting with Ivan Pace Jr last year.  Too early to tell this year, although there are some bright shiny pennies in there.

That was an excellent draft.

#4 · Jun 9, 7:21 AM
MA
Joined Apr 2024
612 posts
Rep: 1,430
Montana Tom wrote:
Which begs the rhetorical question:  Would you rather have a draft with an NFL-record 15 picks in 7 rounds like Spielman had in 2020 or a draft like 2024?  To put it into perspective, yes, we got JJ in that draft.  But after that: Jeff Gladney Ezra Cleveland Cam Dantzler DJ Wonnum James Lynch Troy Dye Harrison Hand KJ Osborne Blake Brandel Josh Metellus Kenny Willekies Nate Stanley Brian Cole Kyle Hinton

Plus, don't forget about the current regime's history of UDFA's, starting with Ivan Pace Jr last year.  Too early to tell this year, although there are some bright shiny pennies in there.

That was a really strong draft with JJ (All-Pro), Ezra (starting LG), KJ (good WR3), and Metellus (starting S) with some good depth in Brandel and Wonnum who got second contracts.

But to your point, yes, sometimes it's better to grab quality over quantity. We made the mistake of quantity over quality in 2022...  could have just stuck at 12 and drafted All-Pro Kyle Hamilton at S instead of trading back to take a different Safety who's been a bust and the extra picks we got turned into busts as well (Booth and Asamoah).

This year I thought the talent wasn't as deep on Day 2 as most years so it made sense to get quality over quantity.  It worked out great we got our QBotF who was a strong prospect in his own right and the top edge rushing prospect in the draft later than he should have went.  Sacrificed some of our mid-round picks to make that happen, but it makes sense if both McCarthy and Dallas pan out.

It just depends on the draft class, where you pick, and how many picks you have.

edited Jun 9, 2024 1:45 PM
#5 · Jun 9, 1:43 PM
HO
Joined Apr 2024
411 posts
Rep: 480

I don't see it as volume or lack there of. It's simply a matter skill at player evaluation. Those teams that perpetually competitive seem to find talent regardless of round selected. Kwesi didn't start out great. Hopefully he has improved!

#6 · Jun 9, 2:08 PM
MaroonBells
Joined Jan 2014
3,235 posts
Rep: 4,468

I don't think blanket statements like "quality over quantity" apply. Sometimes it make sense to trade up; sometimes it makes sense trade down. Depends on where the value is and that's different in every draft.

I think the mistake KAM probably made in '22 was to overlook value and make the move based on the idea that, generally speaking, trading down is wise. Analytically, you get more bang for your buck.

But with good players on the board at positions the Vikings needed (like Williams, Davis, Hamilton, Green and McDuffie), it's pretty clear this was not a lower tier of players.

#7 · Jun 10, 2:52 AM
purplefaithful
Joined May 2013
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Rep: 4,143
StickierBuns wrote:

I think KAM went to 'money ball' right out of the gate and he's learned it can't be so black and white. I've said the same thing in the past, the Draft is a fluid thing....sometimes you do one thing and another time you do the other thing. I think Ryan Grigson has helped him and his learning curve. The 2022 Draft was abysmal for Minnesota.

I was wondering who that was watching all the draft day videos...

Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger! 

#8 · Jun 10, 5:51 AM
KN
Joined Jan 2021
198 posts
Rep: 207
StickierBuns wrote:

Grigson was a former GM of the Colts, had a falling out over his demeanor and some draft miscues. I think he used to yell a lot, was overbearing and wasn't a great listener, so they canned him. Abrasive. So he took some time and reset himself. Learned and matured....was friends with KAM prior. Nice article on this below:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/4778054/2023/08/23/ryan-grigson-vikings-colts/

Thanks for posting this. I wasn't a fan of the Grigson hire based on his tenure w/ Indy. After reading this article, I do feel more positive.

#9 · Jun 10, 6:26 AM
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