Would Darnold plus Nix/Penix be unthinkable?

When we traded for 23 it felt like Maye or bust and I really hope that it happens, but I am beginning to be more comfortable with Nix/Penix (preferably Nix) and using the other 1st rounder the DT that we desperately need. My biggest concern would be giving up multiple 1sts to trade up for JJM as I would be okay with him at 11, but do not see him having the value of two 1sts.

I know there are whispers about how the Vikings like Penix, but I cant imagine they like him more than Maye or JJ.

Problem is they need a trade partner.

I would take Penix all day. I would go nix on Nix.

I had to Google Ragnarok to figure out what you meant. Sounds like it's not a good thing. :s

I think Darnold is going to have a career year. I also don't think there's a HUGE difference between Maye, JJ, Nix and Penix. But I say that having no freaking clue which ones will flourish in the NFL and which ones will bust. And I say that knowing that nobody else does either. 

But I do want KOC to get the guy HE wants. He was damn sure right about Cousins. I cautiously expect him to be right about the rookie. So that's what I want: I want us to draft the guy KOC wants. Damn the cost.

I guess I posted this for a couple of reasons: first, because I literally can't keep track of all the college players, there's no fuggin' way, and so many of them fail to impress at the NFL level as it is that I am beyond skeptical of basically...everything, and everyone, regarding the "gotta have" first round QBs every year.

Second, relating to the first...Darnold is not long from being one of those guys, Baker Mayfield has managed a resurgence, and I guess I'm weighing whether I think a guy like Sam, who's gotta be hungry to fix his career/credibility and has NFL experience is really any more of a long-shot than a fresh 22-year-old that's never played at the NFL level.

My personal hope is that we DON'T trade up any further, get one of KOC's preferred QBs at 11 or 23, and hopefully have all the QBs we need for years, so we can have some peace from those rumors during offseasons....

Unthinkable? No. Disappointing? For me, yes. I just hope whoever we draft to be the QB can play.

I'm a Nix fan myself. I don't care that his completion percentage is bloated. If we cannot trade up for Maye then Nix is next on my list. I'd much rather get a top defensive player at 11 and spin the roulette wheel that Nix will be there at 23. Darnold is 26. Nix is 24. The advantage of Maye/McCarthy is their age.

AGRforever wrote:
I'm a Nix fan myself.  I don't care that his completion percentage is bloated.  If we cannot trade up for Maye then Nix is next on my list.  I'd much rather get a top defensive player at 11 and spin the roulette wheel that Nix will be there at 23.  Darnold is 26.  Nix is 24.  The advantage of Maye/McCarthy is their age.

And if Nix isn't there? The visual of KAM with his tail between his legs telling the Wilfs they need to print up a few more Darnold jerseys is a sad, sad picture. If you and the team have Nix as QB4 they'd be crazy to pass on him at 11. The risk far outweighs the reward, IMO.

Was listening to Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller today. Miller is very apprehensive about Nix. Said he was terrible at Auburn, and while he put up numbers in Oregon there was nothing that stood out to him in a manufactured offense. Said he was sacked only 10 times the last two seasons which equated to being sacked once every 80 pass attempts. Said he was very, very average looking during Senior Bowl practice week. Had Penix ahead of Nix by a wide margin and said Penix has looked the part through this entire draft process.

supafreak84 wrote:
Was listening to Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller today. Miller is very apprehensive about Nix. Said he was terrible at Auburn, and while he put up numbers in Oregon there was nothing that stood out to him in a manufactured offense. Said he was sacked only 10 times the last two seasons which equated to being sacked once every 80 pass attempts. Said he was very, very average looking during Senior Bowl practice week. Had Penix ahead of Nix by a wide margin and said Penix has looked the part through this entire draft process.

So I guess Mahomes or Josh Allen do not get any credit for their numbers, cause they play in passing offense, this is the most ridiculous comment I have heard, just amazing these guys get paid for this kind of garbage.  Penix also played in a wide open offense, did this moron watch any games.  The reason the Oregon offense worked was because of Nix.

supafreak84 wrote:
Was listening to Pat Kirwin and Jim Miller today. Miller is very apprehensive about Nix. Said he was terrible at Auburn, and while he put up numbers in Oregon there was nothing that stood out to him in a manufactured offense. Said he was sacked only 10 times the last two seasons which equated to being sacked once every 80 pass attempts. Said he was very, very average looking during Senior Bowl practice week. Had Penix ahead of Nix by a wide margin and said Penix has looked the part through this entire draft process.

I agree with this. I think Penix is in play in the 10 to 23 range. Nix's best hope is a team like the Rams or Seahawks trading back into the 1st and taking him there. If that doesn't happen, he'll go in the 2nd round. Which is where Drew Brees went. Like Nix there were questions about Brees' arm strength. And like Brees, those questions might be a little exaggerated.

I think it would be ridiculous to think that Nix/Penix is “unthinkable” because it’s a very real probability.  All that has to happen for us to be on the Nix/Penix bandwagon is 3 QBs go 1-3 and a 4th team has a better trade package than us and takes the 4th one.  My brain isn’t prepared to write off the whole season if this happens, so I feel like I’ve got to be open to this possibility.
 
More to the point of the question you were asking, Nix and Penix both have plenty of people looking at their tape and singing their praises.  I don’t watch enough tape, but I would feel comfortable in bringing them into our system and putting them on whatever plan KOC has to get them growing into a starting caliber QB.  That said, I don’t believe that 2024 is a year for competing, so I’ve got my expectations tempered.  I think a success for 2024 would be that either Darnold, Hall or whatever rookie QB we bring in looks like they can grow into the player we need out of the QB.

Also, the odds are that no matter which QB you pick out of this draft, he's probably not going to be the guy, so just prepare for drafting another one soon.

JR44 wrote:

So I guess Mahomes or Josh Allen do not get any credit for their numbers, cause they play in passing offense, this is the most ridiculous comment I have heard, just amazing these guys get paid for this kind of garbage.  Penix also played in a wide open offense, did this moron watch any games.  The reason the Oregon offense worked was because of Nix.

I think he was alluding to the fact that the Oregon offense was a lot of quick hit, one read passes where Nix got the ball out his hands quickly to his playmakers and they did the work from there. Was not challenged much with pressure as Oregon's offensive line talent was superior to pass rushers in the Pac 12. How does his skill set translate to the NFL where the pass rush is ridiculous? He apparently wasn't great at the Senior Bowl where the talent was on a more even level. 

On the other hand you saw Penix standing in the pocket and drive the deep ball down the field with accuracy.

medaille wrote:
I think it would be ridiculous to think that Nix/Penix is “unthinkable” because it’s a very real probability.  All that has to happen for us to be on the Nix/Penix bandwagon is 3 QBs go 1-3 and a 4th team has a better trade package than us and takes the 4th one.  My brain isn’t prepared to write off the whole season if this happens, so I feel like I’ve got to be open to this possibility.   More to the point of the question you were asking, Nix and Penix both have plenty of people looking at their tape and singing their praises.  I don’t watch enough tape, but I would feel comfortable in bringing them into our system and putting them on whatever plan KOC has to get them growing into a starting caliber QB.  That said, I don’t believe that 2024 is a year for competing, so I’ve got my expectations tempered.  I think a success for 2024 would be that either Darnold, Hall or whatever rookie QB we bring in looks like they can grow into the player we need out of the QB.

Also, the odds are that no matter which QB you pick out of this draft, he's probably not going to be the guy, so just prepare for drafting another one soon.

I hope they are not drafting another one soon, but history is what it is too. Its really hard for these college 20 some year olds to make the leap to playing on Sunday. 

I am coming down from the clouds and preparing myself for Penix @ 11. 

I'm not confident they'll find a trading partner with a palatable deal on the table AND I question how effective our front office will manage the tough task of trading-up. 

Until they prove otherwise, they havent earned my trust.

Darnold is what he is. A one year stop gap to start either until the QBOTF is "ready" or until the team is out of playoff contention. If they end up with Nix/Penix and Darnold, the season is a complete wash. No doubt in my mind they finish dead last in the division. The only thing that'll keep them from spending a huge chunk of that cap space in 2025 on Dak Prescott, is somehow getting extremely lucky with Nix/Penix panning out.

JJM is the outlier in that, like Penix/Nix, I think he'll take longer to see the field. Though, he also has a higher ceiling than either of those two. He's kind of in his own tier between Maye/Daniels and Nix/Penix. He'd also require a bigger investment than tier 3, so I feel the team would be more likely to invest in his future in 2025 and beyond.

Penix or Nix would basically be disposable QBs in that they would have to prove A LOT this year in order for the team to not immediately look for their replacement starting next year. In other words, picking Nix or Penix is taking a QB just to say they took one and likely a waste of a first rounder this year (ala Christian Ponder)

I am starting to warm to the possibility of a DL @23 and Penix @ 11...

Partly because I have a growing suspicion the Vikings wont get into top 5 and I think Penix might be under appreciated by many...

Here is an interesting take that not all will agree with:

If you can, forget everything you've heard about this quarterback class in the past three months and travel back to Jan. 30, 2024.

At that moment, if you watched a lot of college football and were preparing to enjoy the national championship game between Washington and Michigan, your quarterback rankings would have looked much different.

Until that final game began, Penix looked like the second or third best quarterback in the land, and McCarthy looked like an intriguing game manager.

Then they played that last game and perceptions changed.

Michigan's excellent defense hit Penix early and often, damaging his ribs. Michigan's power running game shredded Washington's defense, producing 303 yards and four touchdowns.

Michigan won 34-13, and McCarthy was on his way to rising to the top of the draft class and Penix was on his way down the same ladder.

It's easy to remember McCarthy as the superior quarterback that day.

What really happened?

McCarthy completed 10 of 18 passes for 140 yards and no touchdowns. He put up the kinds of numbers that get Gophers quarterbacks benched.

Penix, under intense pressure all night, played despite his injuries and completed 27 of 51 passes for 255 yards and one touchdown with two interceptions.

If you played that game again and switched quarterbacks, the guess here is that McCarthy's reputation and ribs would have taken a beating and Penix would have led Michigan to an even bigger victory.

McCarthy might develop into a quality NFL quarterback. Penix has already played like one.

Penix makes quick decisions, has a quick release, throws well on the move, is a fast runner but prefers to buy time to make big plays downfield, throws with accuracy and anticipation, and excelled in a pro-style passing offense.

By those measures, Oregon's Nix should also be considered a superior prospect to McCarthy. Nix's statistics were even better than Penix's.

Penix attempted 555 passes last season. Nix attempted 470. McCarthy attempted 332 for a team that only occasionally needed him to pass well to win.

History tells us that of the top six quarterback prospects, two will fall somewhere between good and excellent, two will bounce around the NFL and two will utterly fail.

If Williams, Daniels and Maye go in the first three picks to the teams that currently hold those picks, the Vikings will be left to decide whether to trade up for McCarthy, or to "settle" for Penix, Nix or a lower-rated quarterback.

Because we will all be second-guessing the Vikings' upcoming decision for years if not decades, it is only fair to first-guess it.
My first guess: The Vikings would be better off taking the spectacular college passers than the reliable game manager. 

They should bet on Penix, or Nix, rather than McCarthy.

https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-vikings-quarterback-qb-nfl-draft-jj-mccarthy-michael-penix-jr-bo-nix-jim-souhan/600360572/

Everyone who thinks Nix is just some dink and done one read QB needs to watch Bercich's excellent breakdown on him, he is a complete QB and could very well turn out to be the best QB of this draft.

JR44 wrote:
Everyone who thinks Nix is just some dink and done one read QB needs to watch Bercich's excellent breakdown on him, he is a complete QB and could very well turn out to be the best QB of this draft.

You may very well be right. And I suspect you've watched more of these West Coast QB's than me too. 

I was on the Nix bandwagon (over Penix) just a few weeks ago. But there is a growing consensus on the kid that tends to rank him at the bottom of the top 6. 

Everyone has an opinion, thats for sure. 

It will be interesting to see if the Vikings select either one if they dont get a trade consummated near the top of the draft.

JR44 Wrote:
Everyone who thinks Nix is just some dink and done one read QB needs to watch Bercich's excellent breakdown on him, he is a complete QB and could very well turn out to be the best QB of this draft.

Nix averaged just over 6 yards per attempt. I don’t know what your definition of dink and dunk passer is, but that fits the bill by mine. I also can’t ignore there two abysmal years he had at Auburn.

He just reeks “career back up”.

IMO, his absolute highest ceiling is Teddy Bridgewater. Probably a great guy but he’s gonna cost a first rounder and he’s gonna prove to not be good enough.

Of the upper tier, I think Williams probably has the highest bust potential because the expectations are so high. Of the lower tier it’s Nix because he just doesn’t belong