OT: $hit hitting the fan in Middle East

Bullazin wrote:
Israel is going to respond to these attacks tonight, and it is not going to be pretty.  How can we keep from being dragged into this considering our promises to Israel?  

Pray for peace brothers, although I think that is not going to happen for awhile.

There was peace, it was violated on Oct 7th.

While the US government directly and in directly props up both sides.

Still Hurtn wrote:
While the US government directly and in directly props up both sides.

There's money to be made backing both sides,   especially for the large campaign contributors.

We're a country of over 300 million, and pretty mixed by design. We're going to have people pushing to support all sides, even when it's truly horrifying/nauseating.

That said...and I know I'll get plenty of wannabe abuse for this:

1. "Palestine" was a Roman name for an area, never a state, and the entire legacy of "Palestinians" is that of attemped ACTUAL genocide on Israel, failure, then playing PR games for international support. The PLO leadership and others have confirmed this in quotes for decades, and the current hamas leadership filth is clear that they don't want two states, tbat they won't stop until Israel is gone...so, I ask, why does the world need a "Palestine"? The real "innocents" had jobs in Israel and could be offered citizenship deals, the rest can go to the same Iran that's funded both hamas and Hezbollah.

2.  Biden is a spineless, useless *****. All he had to do was keep his conversations with Netanyahu (a true s**thead, I don't deny) between them, show sympathy for any victims lost in the ongoing fight, but remain firm and remind America that some of those hostages are OURS. Instead, he's given symbolic victories to terrorists/Iran, looks completely indecisive, and is exposing the deep rifts within his own gutless party of clowns.

3.  Trumplestilskin is still s filthy, lying, sack of spray-tanned s**t himself, and only sounds more stupid and dishonest when he claims he can speak for both Jews and Blacks from his pulpit of BS. He really does need to have some of those felonies get him locked up, so we can get some peace from this tragic comedy clown.

4.  As for "dragging us into this...", we're in it, as deep or more than we're in the Ukraine mess, and for many of the same reasons: the people behind these tragic debacles aren't interested in stopping at their current targets, this should be VERY plain by now. How many shrieking marches, blocked traffic, blocked airports, bulled citizens, bullied businesses, cancelled speakers/comedians/performers, and completely harassed Jewish students have we seen over here, already? IT'S HERE, it's deep into the UK, it's terrifying in Canada, and pretending it's just "over there" is the height of denial. Russia is doing their damage more covertly, more cyber and influence, but too many GOP goons are practically parroting putin's babble (along with one infamous former Faux Nooz antisemite assclown) to be ignored, and again...it's HERE, just more in the House of Representatives than in the streets.

We're "drug in" already. At some point, we need to decide if we're winning or not.

Mods, please move this off the football board :)

Nonsense. They didn’t send that many weapons thinking they would be intercepted. They very obviously tried to overwhelm the systems. They likely didn’t count on US naval assets shooting their shit out of the sky though.

We have been at war with Iran for the past three years. Roughly about the time we left Afghanistan. There have been constant attacks on our troops in Iraq and Iran doesn’t even try to hide it anymore.

We are at war. That’s the reality. The only question is “when will it go dynamic?”

Our leadership right now from both sides of the aisle is pathetic, so I have little hope thi will be avoided.

Havoc wrote:
Nonsense. They didn’t send that many weapons thinking they would be intercepted. They very obviously tried to overwhelm  the systems. They likely didn’t count on US naval assets shooting their shit out of the sky though.

We have been at war with Iran for the past three years. Roughly about the time we left Afghanistan. There have been constant attacks on our troops in Iraq and Iran doesn’t even try to hide it anymore.

We are at war. That’s the reality. The only question is “when will it go dynamic?”

Our leadership right now from both sides of the aisle is pathetic, so I have little hope thi will be avoided.

How could they not have anticipated US defensive measures in Israel's behalf?  We've been shooting down shit headed for Israel for months now,  why would last night have been any different?  I don't know that they were making a symbolic offensive as another suggested,  but I'm sure they didn't over look the US's involvement 

Havoc wrote:

"We are at war. That’s the reality. The only question is “when will it go dynamic?”

Our leadership right now from both sides of the aisle is pathetic, so I have little hope thi will be avoided."

So Havoc, what type of leadership do you want to see and what should they accomplish? Blue team controls the WH and Senate. WH seems to be trying to appease Iran and tell Israel to stand down even though attacked. The stated ironclad support of Israel does not appear so ironclad...

My own pov is this...

Trump or Biden; any standing POTUS would be (should be) trying to keep this from spinning out of control more than it has...

I dont think there is any question of the fortitude of US backing of Israel as did the French and British. Yesterday and before that.  They all played roles in either shooting shit out of the sky or tracking assistance to shoot shit out of the sky or in space. 

I guess some will question that with the politics in Washington, linkage to Israeli aid to aid for Ukraine etc.

Iran crossed a serious line yesterday and their play was not in any way proportionate to losing a few generals at a council building in Syria.

5, 10, 20 cruise missiles, may be a measured response. 300 cruise missiles, drones and ballistic missiles? That was meant to damage cities and kill civilians. I suspect they significantly underestimated how much of a fail this would be militarily and casualty wise.

On the flip-side, I strongly disagree with how Bibi has handled Gaza. I am a backer of Israel, but no way of Netanyahu. He needs to go and the Palestinians deserve a homeland.

Of course everyone has an opinion on what Israel should or should not do next. Bolton was on record saying this was Israels open door moment to go after Iranian nuke capability. Thats pretty hard-line, but if successful, might buy the world 2 or 3 more years is all. IMO it would ratchet the heat up a bunch more too.

China is helping fuel Iran by buying their oil - to the tune of billions of $$$ every year. That needs to be shut down. How do we do that???

It's 1938 all over again and the world is at war (well almost);
Axis = Iran, Russia, China, NK

Its just a matter of when people actually realize it.

Israel will exact a price for the attack. Will this accelerate a wider war? We probably wont have to wait long.

JimmyinSD wrote:

There's money to be made backing both sides,   especially for the large campaign contributors.

purplefaithful wrote:
My own pov is this...

Trump or Biden; any standing POTUS would be trying to keep this from spinning out of control more than it has...

I dont think there is any question of the fortitude of US backing of Israel as did the French and British. Yesterday and before that.  They all played roles in either shooting shit out of the sky or tracking assistance to shoot shit out of the sky or in space. 

I guess some will question that with the politics in Washington, linkage to Israeli aid to aid for Ukraine etc.

Iran crossed a serious line yesterday and their play was not in any way proportionate to losing a few generals at a council building in Syria.

5, 10, 20 cruise missiles, maybe a measured response. 200 cruise missiles, drones and ballistic missiles? That was meant to damage cities and kill civilians. I suspect they significantly underestimated how much of a fail this would be militarily and casualty wise.

On the flip-side, I strongly disagree with how Bibi has handled Gaza. I am a backer of Israel, but no way of Netanyahu. He needs to go and the Palestinians deserve a homeland.

Of course everyone has an opinion on what Israel should or should not do next. Bolton was on record saying this was Israels open door moment to go after Iranian nuke capability. Thats pretty hard-line, but if successful, might buy the world 2 or 3 more years is all. IMO it would ratchet the heat up a bunch more too.

China is helping fuel Iran by buying their oil - to the tune of billions of $$$ every year. That needs to be shut down.

It's 1938 all over again and the world is at war
Axis = Iran, Russia, China, NK

Its just a matter of when people actually realize it. Will our leaders be Neville Chamberlain or Winston Churchill??

I'm also a backer of Israel...but, I actually see NO need for a "Palestine", and I think it's basically been a sham all along.

They DIDN'T take the deal in 1948, tried to get every army in the area to murder Israel out of existence, failed, and have played the victim ever since.  At some point, they just fuggin' LOSE.

They tried to take over Jordan, murdered their PM in 1970. They're a big reason Lebanon is the huge mess it is right now, and they were backing Saddam in Kuwait when Desert Shield/Storm went down.

They had the Palestinian Authortity teaching their kids to hate/kill Jews and martyr themselves, right in their own texbooks...the EU busted them in 2017 and 2022, on top of the UNRWA horrors we've had exposed more recently.

They have elected both hezbollah and hamas as "leadership", when both were recognized terrorist puppet clubs of Iran's...and have enabled the (literally) thousands of missiles and other attacks that have rained into Israel for the entire time.

Israel left functioning water treatment/plumbing and greenhouses when they handed Gaza over, almost 20 years ago. The water piping was "repurposed" for improvised rocket launchers, the greenhouses destroyed, and people shriek at Israel for the water/food issues....

Look...I, also, despise Bibi, and was calling for his head when he tried to neuter the country's courts right before the 10/7 nightmare occurred. That said...a HUGE amount of Gaza's problems are directly due to hamas' ongoing s**tshow, which is always a tragedy to be played out for the press. Israel literally cannot win the PR battle in the eyes of the stupid/gullible/antisemitic, so I think they should seriously limit their efforts to do so. Act decisively, act effectively, stay within international law, but get the assclown leaders of hamas off the board and rescue whoever's actually left among the hostages...ASAFP.

Meh.

IDF hit Iranian embassy in proxy Syria, took out 2 Iranian Generals.
Iran retaliated, rained bomb/strikes, killing one Arab peacefully living in Israel. Good trade!
"Iran's Retaliation" proved incredibly weak sauce.

Trump's Abraham Accords have proven Iran is acting alone. (Well, they got Syria/Hezbollah/Hamas)

Nothing coming of this latest waste of attention, imo.

To those of you worried about "escalation", the USS Bataan Marine Expeditionary Unit https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/22/pentagon-weighs-extending-uss-bataan-and-marine-expeditionary-unit-deployment-middle-east-amid.html#:~:text=The%20Bataan%20Amphibious%20Ready%20Group,Israel%2DHamas%20war%20in%20Gaza.(2000 Leatherneck Marines, DevilDogs) are standing by, to implement our "interests."

Keep pushing it, Iran Mullahs.

I really don't see this failing to get to really noisy, bloody vigilantism sooner rather than later. The "Palestinian" sympathizers always get to this point, but it's spread further and more populated than ever before.

The truly stupid, horrible parts of this are, to me, that so many of the same people being led by their nose rings in these marches and chants that are increasingly anti-Western would be first against the wall in the very society they think they're shrieking for.