medaille wrote:

I’m not convinced that we are fully moving on from Murray. I think it’s still 50-50 to me. It feels like it’s too early to hard move on from Murray. I feel like if you are benching Murray for performance, you are basically done with him, after one game that was optically bad. I said earlier that I though it would take 7-8 games for Murray to get up to speed in the offense. We’ve had like 5 games with Murray, so I don’t really feel like he’s got the expected amount of time to grow yet.
Asking Wentz to play the rest of the season … he may survive that. Do we want Wentz best to be used midseason or save it for the playoffs?
I think it’s more like Murray legitimately has some amount of hamstring injury. It doesn’t make sense to put him out there if he’s not able to really run (as that really limits his style to contain him to the pocket). I think it’s more just that with this opportunity, if Wentz balls out, he might not give Murray the spot back, but I think if Wentz looks like the Wentz we’ve seen, there’s a good chance they give Murray more chance to grow once he’s back to being able to run.

If this team REALLY is all-in on this defense and having the opportunity to compete for a Super Bowl. I think Monday will then determine whether or not the move is made for a QB by Tuesday. I think they evaluate whether or not Carson Wentz can be counted on against one of the best teams in the NFL. If so, they can spend future assets on other need areas on the team. If he falters, I think they pivot and do what they can to acquire a QB.

I think where Kyler fits in this scenario is....This new QB, if they go get one, will need a couple weeks to get up to speed. This is where Kyler would be re-inserted with the shortest leash on Earth, potentially facing two tough games vs the Packers and Niners.

Any way you cut it...I think the team has all but announced they're basically out on Kyler Murray

pattersaur wrote:

I thought this for a long time too but having seen multiple QBs come through here now and play as well or better elsewhere is making me second guess this.
Even Kyler Murray-- do we not think he'd be playing better right now on a different team in a different offense? Because I do.
... So what the heck, KEVIN!

purplefaithful wrote:

The running game sucks, and the coach can call a bone-head play now and then, but the main problem is the QB not executing.
Last year it was McCarthy (when he played) and this year it's K1. Is KOC not tailoring the offense enough for 9 or K1? I dont think it can be said definitively either way. But it worked well for Darnold and Wentz looked better in a short stint vs K1.
I suspect the offense will look like a real NFL offense this week as long as they are not having to play Brosmer.

I thought this for a long time too but having seen multiple QBs come through here now and play as well or better elsewhere is making me second guess this.

Even Kyler Murray-- do we not think he'd be playing better right now on a different team in a different offense? Because I do.

... So what the heck, KEVIN!

"KO has had to deal with 13 different QBs!" is the same as, "KO has gotten to deal with 13 different QBs and somehow lead us here."

pattersaur wrote:

purplefaithful wrote:
The running game sucks, and the coach can call a bone-head play now and then, but the main problem is the QB not executing.
Last year it was McCarthy (when he played) and this year it's K1. Is KOC not tailoring the offense enough for 9 or K1? I dont think it can be said definitively either way. But it worked well for Darnold and Wentz looked better in a short stint vs K1.
I suspect the offense will look like a real NFL offense this week as long as they are not having to play Brosmer.
I thought this for a long time too but having seen multiple QBs come through here now and play as well or better elsewhere is making me second guess this.
Even Kyler Murray-- do we not think he'd be playing better right now on a different team in a different offense? Because I do.
... So what the heck, KEVIN!
"KO has had to deal with 13 different QBs!" is the same as, "KO has gotten to deal with 13 different QBs and somehow lead us here."

I guess I'm left wondering where is this list of QB's that sucked here, left and went on to have great careers elsewhere?

Darnold did very well here and should have been extended while 9 watched and carried a clip board.

Jones? KAM is on record admitting that he blew that negotiation and Daniel is having issues now.

McCarthy? Too soon to say

K1? I guess I'd have to see him excel (anywhere else) b4 we'd know definitively

Dobbs? Mullens?

I’m said this before the season and I still stand by it.  I don’t think KOC is on the hot seat at this exact second, but by the end of the season, I think he’ll need to win a playoff game, at least, or he’ll be in consideration for getting replaced.  His offense is a bad offense.  At it’s best, it’s still been outside the top 10.  At it’s worst, it is catastrophically bad.  His offense is filled with super star players, high draft picks and expensive veterans.  He’s used those resources to put out back to back bottom 5 offenses.  His offense is bad at running the ball.  In the past it was bad at running the ball, so it didn’t.  This year, it’s been bad at running the ball, but at least we committed to it.  If we didn’t have Flores, and we replaced him with like the 10th best DC in the league, we’d probably have like 6 wins combined last year and this year so far, but if we replaced KOC with like the 20th best OC, that’s probably good enough to win a SB this year.  I think KOC has been exceptionally bad at designing an offense that works with the QBs we have.  I think he’s changing his offense all the time because it wasn’t right in the first place.  I think his offenses struggle a lot because they never get enough reps doing any one thing to really lock it in.  I think KOC would do great if he had a top 10 QB … but who wouldn’t?  But you can’t just get a top 10 QB.  They aren’t on the free agent market and he can’t develop a QB.  We’ve already seen him try and we saw him drop JJM into the deep end of the pool and watched him sink.

I think after the season is over, there will have to be some hard decisions to make.  Probably the most important thing:  Do they expect Flores to remain on the blacklist or will some team let him be their HC?  I think if you expect him to get poached, you just flush the KOC experiment, and make Flores the HC.  If Flores is expected to stay, I think you’ll see the front office give KOC a chance to continue being the HC but while bringing in a different OC and QB coach, someone who has more of a track record of developing QBs and making offenses that work with more than just a handful of QBs, someone that will make a balanced and multiple offense.

purplefaithful wrote:

I guess I'm left wondering where is this list of QB's that sucked here, left and went on to have great careers elsewhere?
Darnold did very well here and should have been extended while 9 watched and carried a clip board.
Jones? KAM is on record admitting that he blew that negotiation and Daniel is having issues now.
McCarthy? Too soon to say
K1? I guess I'd have to see him excel (anywhere else) b4 we'd know definitively
Dobbs? Mullens?

Maybe I worded it wrong but I didn't mean all of them afterwards. Jones never played here so I wouldn't count him but Kyler played way better in Arizona than here. McCarthy looks night and day better for NYG than he did for us in the preseason which was about a month prior, but we'll see on him. Too early I agree.

I guess where it really starts to get frustrating for me is that we took JJM over Nix, chose Kyler over Geno, spurned Rodgers' advances, etc... The number of QBs KO has either directly coached or could have coached if he thought they were a good fit for his offense gets longer every year. And we got not a lot to show for it. Whoever the magic QB is that can operate the offense of KO's dreams is, I hope we find him soon.

Havoc wrote:

Kevin is on the hot seat at 6-1 because of his moronic decision making with McCarthy’s development and the sheer stupidity of the trade that sent him away. It isn’t just the trade decision though is it? It’s the fact he did it for a moldy cheese sandwich, while hamstringing his team by removing a talented player they could turn to if injury or poor play became a factor. There was zero rational reason for the action.
I don’t remember ever being as angry with the Vikings as I am over this. It isn’t that I have astronomical expectations for McCarthy. It simply comes down to the sheer incompetence of the move. It’s embarrassing. If this team wasn’t 6-1 (100% thanks to the defense and special teams), my friends who are fans of other teams would be absolutely relentless after McCarthy went to the Giants and performed well in a manner of a couple of weeks.
Just how stupid was trading him simply from a football perspective?
Player 1:
year 1: 1 game, 0 starts
Year 2: 16 starts. 60.8% completions, 17 tds, 16 ints
Year 3: 11 starts. 57.6% completions, 11 tds, 15 ints
Player 2:
Year 1: 0 starts 2 games 0.00% completions, 0 tds, 2 ints on 4 total passes
Year 2: 13 starts 64% completions, 18 tds, 13 ints
Year 3: 16 starts 60.9% completions, 19 tds, 24 ints
Both these guys are in the Hall of Fame. There are plenty of guys drafted as the future who didn’t pan out or started off far better and fizzled out. However, that’s not the point. The point is it takes time for the majority of young guys and they have to be afforded that opportunity to learn through the good games and the bad. They have to get actual reps or what was the point of ever drafting them? These are examples of two guys where it took about 30 starts before they started “getting it”. If you go through NFL history of great QB’s, this is the norm, not the exception.
McCarthy started off the long winning streak towards the end of last season and individually drove that success. He showed legit flashes. Yet here we are. This is why I rail on about this. It’s the stupidest move I’ve seen the Vikings make in over 30 years. If I owned the team, Teasley would have had one of the shortest tenures as a GM in NFL history. He’d have been fired by me immediately. Kevin would have had the rest of the year, but unless he had a good one, he’d be gone. You simply cannot have that level of incompetence with personnel in the NFL. The difference between getting to the top and being poor is razor thin. It’s so difficult to find a good QB, you cannot give up on a guy after so few starts. It’s simply unacceptable and why KOC has earned his way onto the “hot seat”.

Couldn't agree more. I haven't been as disgusted with the team's handling of the QB situation maybe ever, and that's saying a hell of a lot.

pattersaur wrote:

Maybe I worded it wrong but I didn't mean all of them afterwards. Jones never played here so I wouldn't count him but Kyler played way better in Arizona than here. McCarthy looks night and day better for NYG than he did for us in the preseason which was about a month prior, but we'll see on him. Too early I agree.
I guess where it really starts to get frustrating for me is that we took JJM over Nix, chose Kyler over Geno, spurned Rodgers' advances, etc... The number of QBs KO has either directly coached or could have coached if he thought they were a good fit for his offense gets longer every year. And we got not a lot to show for it. Whoever the magic QB is that can operate the offense of KO's dreams is, I hope we find him soon.

This will irk many, but I think Rogers in retrospect would have been a pretty good signing here while McCarthy incubated longer. I did read earlier today that the Vikings were interested in Geno, but he got traded and they pivoted to k1.

Who knows if there is any truth to this or not?

I am not absolving the coach completely for the record. The record shows the Vikings have made poor decisions at QB for quite some time now and how much of the blame a fan wants to put on the GM or HC is up to them.

• Brett Favre (2009–2010)

• Tarvaris Jackson (2006–2010 started games through this span)

• Joe Webb (2010–2013)

• Donovan McNabb (2011)

• Christian Ponder (2011–2014)

• Matt Cassel (2013–2014)

• Josh Freeman (2013)

• Teddy Bridgewater (2014–2017)

• Shaun Hill (2015–2016)

• Sam Bradford (2016–2017)

• Case Keenum (2017)

• Kirk Cousins (2018–2023)

• Sean Mannion (2019–2021)

• Josh Dobbs (2023)

• Nick Mullens (2022–2023)

• Jaren Hall (2023)

• Sam Darnold (2024)

• J.J. McCarthy (2025)

• Max Brosmer (2025)

• Carson Wentz (2025–2026)

• Kyler Murray (2026)

Cant make it up...ITs that horrendous.

purplefaithful wrote:

This will irk many, but I think Rogers in retrospect would have been a pretty good signing here while McCarthy incubated longer. I did read earlier today that the Vikings were interested in Geno, but he got traded and they pivoted to k1.
Who knows if there is any truth to this or not?
I am not absolving the coach completely for the record. The record shows the Vikings have made poor decisions at QB for quite some time now and how much of the blame a fan wants to put on the GM or HC is up to them.

I couldn't agree more and posted and re-posted in some other thread the same thing, but closed the window earlier today/yesterday without submitting.

In hindsight, Rodgers was the play 100%. He would have fit the mold of KO perfectly in this offense and McCarthy would have had more time to work within the system and gain more confidence.

I'll go one further though, and that is I think Rodgers was the play LAST YEAR, not just this year. Once Darnold and Jones left, they should have brought Rodgers in immediately on a one-year deal. I couldn't care less about what the fan base thought of him, as most of the fanbase cannot stand Kirk because of his beliefs and what he stands for, etc. Cry me freaking a river. We all want the same thing and that is to win a Championship. How we get there, does it really matter? Hell no.

KO and company mucked this QB situation up terribly and it's beyond frustrating, because we have one of the best WRs in the game, an generational defense, and a kicker that we've all wanted since Gary Anderson.

IceRatz16 wrote:

I couldn't agree more and posted and re-posted in some other thread the same thing, but closed the window earlier today/yesterday without submitting.

In hindsight, Rodgers was the play 100%. He would have fit the mold of KO perfectly in this offense and McCarthy would have had more time to work within the system and gain more confidence.

I'll go one further though, and that is I think Rodgers was the play LAST YEAR, not just this year. Once Darnold and Jones left, they should have brought Rodgers in immediately on a one-year deal. I couldn't care less about what the fan base thought of him, as most of the fanbase cannot stand Kirk because of his beliefs and what he stands for, etc. Cry me freaking a river. We all want the same thing and that is to win a Championship. How we get there, does it really matter? Hell no.

KO and company mucked this QB situation up terribly and it's beyond frustrating, because we have one of the best WRs in the game, an generational defense, and a kicker that we've all wanted since Gary Anderson.

Was Rogers a FA last year? OR did the Steelers have rights?

I cant remember, but its a good point and I agree with it. Who was the GM then? Because there is a really big difference $$ wise in Rogers vs K1 to consider. And last year was positioned to us as a financial correction off-season.

Now we'll both probably get run out of here on a rail.

purplefaithful wrote:

Was Rogers a FA last year? OR did the Steelers have rights?
I cant remember, but its a good point and I agree with it. Who was the GM then? Because there is a really big difference $$ wise in Rogers vs K1 to consider. And last year was positioned to us as a financial correction off-season.
Now we'll both probably get run out of here on a rail.

Rodgers was a FA last year, yes.

https://www.minnesotasportsfan.com/minnesota-vikings/latest-aaron-rodgers-rumors-march-2025/

This one is funny...

https://bringmethesports.com/report-reveals-stunning-reason-vikings-passed-on-aaron-rodgers

purplefaithful wrote:

I really dont understand how coaches like McVay and KOC use their OC's?
Part of me wants to continue harping about letting Udinski go, but then would it have made a difference if we kept him?
I think in regard to McCarthy it might have.
I believe the K1 hammy injury is real - it explains why K1 didnt take off and scramble nearly as much as I expected in Detroit.
That said, if Wentz really sparks the offense? They wont be changing back any time soon.

You in my oy nailed it. I wish I could find the thread in which I was also worried about people sniffing around Grant I think it started with the Seahawks. I felt he was a key part of the offensive build and a person we should have tried at all cost to keep.

If the Vikings get rid of KOC they are completely ignorant.

Seriously, only Vikings fans and idiot talking heads who need something to talk about thinks he should go. Everyone was all for getting rid of cousins until the found out he was pretty good compared to what else is out there. Darnold isn’t even good with the Seahawks, that defense last year carried them.

Kwesi was doing the Kwesi thing when it came to bringing in talent, whatever that was. Some hits, some very big misses. He wasn’t able to draft for whatever reason. Scouting department? He thought he was clever? I don’t know.

My son and my son in law are Colts fans and we talked about this during the Colts game. They both said they’d love to have a coach that could win with the terrible QB situation the Vikings have been in. The colts have been there too since Luck left

Had Kirk not blown his Achilles out, I wonder how the rest of that year would have looked, and if they would have signed him to a long term deal, or if Kwesi and the ownership were dead set on having a qb on a rookie deal.

Seems like old Kirko wasn’t such a bad QB after all. When KOC is gone and the Vikings are 3-13 with their next head coach, fans will be pining for KOC.

IceRatz16 wrote:

This one is funny...

https://bringmethesports.com/report-reveals-stunning-reason-vikings-passed-on-aaron-rodgers

Yes, ironic and (imo) I don't think it was a crazy take. I think McCarthy and camp would absolutely have wanted an opportunity elsewhere in 25 and the Vikings could have absolutely said no.

Water under the bridge now...

I mean yeah he should be. We have done the revolving QB thing over and over again. And yes I know their record but it is not because of the offense. People are waiting for the other shoe to drop. You can't continue to win without offense and without getting the ball to Jefferson. Best receiver in the league and he is not involved in the offense. I want KOC to succeed but it is not looking good

Riphawkins wrote:

If the Vikings get rid of KOC they are completely ignorant.

Seriously, only Vikings fans and idiot talking heads who need something to talk about thinks he should go. Everyone was all for getting rid of cousins until the found out he was pretty good compared to what else is out there. Darnold isn’t even good with the Seahawks, that defense last year carried them.
Kwesi was doing the Kwesi thing when it came to bringing in talent, whatever that was. Some hits, some very big misses. He wasn’t able to draft for whatever reason. Scouting department? He thought he was clever? I don’t know.
My son and my son in law are Colts fans and we talked about this during the Colts game. They both said they’d love to have a coach that could win with the terrible QB situation the Vikings have been in. The colts have been there too since Luck left
Had Kirk not blown his Achilles out, I wonder how the rest of that year would have looked, and if they would have signed him to a long term deal, or if Kwesi and the ownership were dead set on having a qb on a rookie deal.
Seems like old Kirko wasn’t such a bad QB after all. When KOC is gone and the Vikings are 3-13 with their next head coach, fans will be pining for KOC.

What would KOC's record be if you replaced Flores with a league average DC? When you say that the Vikings coaches are winning despite bad QB play ... that is Flores not KOC. The whole offense is bad when we have bad QB play. It's not like KOC is working around the lack of QB and the offense is productive despite the QB.

I just can't believe management and KOC could even think Murray could be their answer to the quarterback problem except for the salary he came with. They're supposed to be all knowing regards to players and needs to the team, but they trade McCarthy and kept Murray. Now, he's out and Wentz is in against Buffalo. They should have just started McCarthy from the get-go and seen if he could make it or not, but they traded him away for only a 5th round pick. This season is probably over from this point on.

FourCornersViking wrote:

I just can't believe management and KOC could even think Murray could be their answer to the quarterback problem except for the salary he came with. They're supposed to be all knowing regards to players and needs to the team, but they trade McCarthy and kept Murray. Now, he's out and Wentz is in against Buffalo. They should have just started McCarthy from the get-go and seen if he could make it or not, but they traded him away for only a 5th round pick. This season is probably over from this point on.

Agree with most of this but not the last sentence.

We're 6-1, about to get a look at Wentz, about to see what the defense looks like against another great offense, and importantly, the trade deadline hasn't passed. 3-4 days from now maybe things are different, but as of today, hope remains!