Why KOC's seat should be hot this year
I debated whether to post this, but I figured I would get it off my chest and move on, but I believe that KOC's seat should be red hot this year and here is why.
It's year 5 and he hasn't won a playoff game. I honestly don't care if the team goes 17-0. By looking at the "How old are you" data on the board, at 52, I am one of the young ones. We don't have much longer to wait for a Super Bowl. If you can't win a playoff game you can't win a Super Bowl.
In the 2 playoff game losses, KOC has been severely out coached by Brian Daboll and by his mentor, Sean McVay. I would also add that in 2024, he was severely outcoached in a playoff type game by Dan Campbell. I wanted to blame Sammy and the OL for the Lions and Rams losses that season, but the further away we get from it and the more evidence we have, I believe better then 50% of it was O'Connell and his lack of adaptability.
I believe #2 is related to this, his either inability or unwillingness to adapt to the players on his roster. The chuck and duck scheme is what he wants to run and complains that he has to "simplify the offense" whenever he has to modify it.
For being a kick ass offensive mind, he has averaged 19th in total offense, 14th in scoring, and never higher then 14th in EPA or DVA. This shows average at best. Oh sure, you can talk about how he hasn't had this or that, but no more excuses. It's time, if he can't build a top 10 offense with this roster, this year, I have serious doubts about his capability.
If not for Brian Flores, this team wins 4 games last year and KOC is holding Kwesi's bag at the airport. I also believe 2024 may be a 9 win season without Brian Flores. So essentially Flores is the better coach. KOC gets credit for bringing him here, but does Flores get most of the credit for the 14 win team and the non-total disaster of 2025?
And here is the big one. The entire JJ McCarthy saga to this point. You will never convince me that KOC did not have a heavy hand in the drafting of McCarthy. If, after 10 games and 3 seasons, it is clear McCarthy doesn't have it, then what the hell happened? How did we go from the next franchise QB to this? Beyond this, the entire handling of the situation this year has been a borderline joke. Anyone who thought there was an actual QB competition, well I have some ocean front property here in Montana to sell you. If he wanted JJ to sit another year, then say that. Quit with the bullshit. I can say it looks like McCarthy has seriously regressed since being under KOC's tutelage. And frankly, at this point, I don't want him within 200 miles of the next young QB prospect for the Vikings. I know, JJ was hurt and this and that...excuse time is over. If McCarthy is gone before the start of the 2027 season this is a failure on GM, Coach and Ownership. The GM has paid his dues on it, it's time for the coach to pay his....unless
All of this is null and void if KOC can win a couple of playoff games this year. Short of that, he should be in the bread line prior to 2027. I don't care how many regular season games they win. My assumption would be no playoff games and the Vikings would be right back in to the "Who the hell is our QB gonna be" scenario going in to 2027.
Finally, I want to say this, coming out of 2024 I was super high on O'Connell. I felt like we finally had our dude to bring us to the promised land. Get us a franchise QB in the building and start the next era of Viking Championship football. Instead we have once again been fed a giant shit sandwich and it's continued on to this season. I feel like it all began in Detroit in 2024 and has cratered downhill to where we are now.
Anyways I am sure plenty will disagree and some will think I am stupid and don't know football. I am not saying I am some great genius, but I have some background in the game playing, coaching, and like all of you, observing. We all look at it through our glasses, and those of us on this board are colored purple. I just want one before I die.....
Vikesrock wrote:
I believe there are people out there trying to media protect KOC in some regards. I remember some time in 2024 he claimed he was the "Quarterback killer" fighting off some bad decisions. One that I believe was mentioned was Will Levis. So for one to believe that any of these QB's were just "Hung around KOC's neck" to me is very naive. Either way, I think another point under all this is simple. What the hell happened? If KOC IS the QB whisperer, how come so many excuses? Get it done. You have Murray, a #1 overall pick. If you can't do it now, what makes anyone think he ever could?
If K1 misses as much time as JJM typically has (god forbid) then I wouldn't blame the HC for that either....
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
purplefaithful wrote:
I agree...
I think running the ball effectively is a big area, I hope his decision to bring Smith on board finally addresses that.
KOC needs to play to the strengths of the team. If the line can block well enough to establish a solid run game, which should be the case with a QB capable of running as well, the pass game should be much more potent.
I don't see KOC going anywhere unless the whole thing unravels. I don't expect that to happen.
purplefaithful wrote:
If K1 misses as much time as JJM typically has (god forbid) then I wouldn't blame the HC for that either....
I don't count any coach playing with a backup QB as a meaningful result. Case Keenum was an exception but he had Shurmur who was one of the best OC's the Vikings have had.
hogjowlsjohnny wrote:
I don't count any coach playing with a backup QB as a meaningful result. Case Keenum was an exception but he had Shurmur who was one of the best OC's the Vikings have had.
I remember it well and I was VERY BUMMED when Shurmur left....Zimmer went through OC's like I go through paper towels
Stefanski may have been the best of the lot post Shurmur
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
purplefaithful wrote:
I remember it well and I was VERY BUMMED when Shurmur left....Zimmer went through OC's like I go through paper towels
Stefanski may have been the best of the lot post Shurmur
Yup, hated seeing shurmur get the HC gig only to fail again.
Problem with a defensive HC, good OCs got promotions and the bad ones got fired. There was no continuity on O.
purplefaithful wrote:
KC had his best seasons under KOC and so did Darnold - Fact
...
KC was worse under KOC than he was under Zimmer.
Darnold was better under KOC ... but credits Shanahan for his being better.
medaille wrote:
KC was worse under KOC than he was under Zimmer.
Darnold was better under KOC ... but credits Shanahan for his being better.
you are correct: his 103 under Zimsu and 98 over the KOC period.
KC was also trending at a 103.8 clip the year he said goodby to his achilles 8 games in.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
comet52 wrote:
He's 43-27 including playoffs and out from under a bad g.m. and the owners love him. I'm not his biggest fan but none of that adds up to a red hot seat. That said, it's possible that he needs a playoff win to stay employed.
Well we have playoff wins under the Wilfs so…
Is this thing STILL on? | Skol Vikes! |
He has shown enough coaching blunders since he start d and hasn’t improved on that I think if he doesn’t improve in some areas and we miss the playoffs not only might he be gone I would say he should be gone. Likeable guy but not getting it done is not getting it done.
Is this thing STILL on? | Skol Vikes! |
medaille wrote:
KC was worse under KOC than he was under Zimmer.
Darnold was better under KOC ... but credits Shanahan for his being better.
17-Game Average (per 17 games played under Zimmer):
Completions / Attempts: 419 / 615
Passing Yards: 4,420 yards
Passing TDs: 33 TDs
Interceptions: 10 INTs
• • Record: ~9–8
17-Game Average (per 17 games played under O'Connell):
Completions / Attempts: 435 / 649
Passing Yards: 4,677 yards
Passing TDs: 32 TDs
Interceptions: 13 INTs
Record: ~12–5
And remember, in Cousins 2nd year of the offense (what we were all waiting for), he was getting MVP buzz before he went down. He was leading the league in yards, TDs and passer rating. He was on pace for 4,950 yds and 38 TDs
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
—George Orwell
MaroonBells wrote:
17-Game Average (per 17 games played under Zimmer):
Completions / Attempts: 419 / 615
Passing Yards: 4,420 yards
Passing TDs: 33 TDs
Interceptions: 10 INTs
• • Record: ~9–8
17-Game Average (per 17 games played under O'Connell):
Completions / Attempts: 435 / 649
Passing Yards: 4,677 yards
Passing TDs: 32 TDs
Interceptions: 13 INTs
Record: ~12–5
And remember, in Cousins 2nd year of the offense (what we were all waiting for), he was getting MVP buzz before he went down. He was leading the league in yards, TDs and passer rating. He was on pace for 4,950 yds and 38 TDs
For more context:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CousKi00.htm
I look at these, and to me it looks very sameish, just KOC refused to run the ball so the attempts are massively higher.
I feel comfortable saying that KC was a veteran the KOC could work with (unlike all the young guys he's worked with). I just don't see him as a guy that KOC clearly elevated over his previous production.
StickierBuns wrote:
Again, and I guess we need to say it again: he's had to use 8 different starting QBs in his tenure....yet tied for 5th in most wins in the NFL the last 4 seasons. The closest team to that (amount of started QBs) and has exactly the same record (outside the playoffs) is San Francisco with 4. Half the amount.
This is your drum you beat, I get it. But if you can't understand the added difficulty of that, not sure what to tell you....I mean that's the 'fun fact' to take away from that.
It's getting harder and harder for me to separate KO from this teams inability to find a franchise QB. Getting dealt a contaminated batch of tofu to start at QB is one thing and that warrants a ton of patience from fans, so I've shown it. But Kevin's been picking out his own groceries out for while now, seemingly gaining more control over roster decisions during his tenure. Like Mike Olsen said above, Likeable guy but not getting it done is not getting it done.
-- The unspoken part I don't really want to think about is that if Kyler doesn't work out, will it even stick to KO? Or will the narrative be that Kyler is just another journeyman off the scrap heap who the Vikings brass saddled the Whisperer with and expected him to polish Kyler into a diamond? There are a lot of ways this season can go but at least for my part, unless there's a crippling amount of injuries, I'm going to hold KO accountable for all of it, good or bad. I think he's a great coach. But we need results or maybe he's just not a fit here.
StickierBuns wrote:
Geez, who could have predicted that...
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