Our Quarterbacks
These are my thoughts after a very limited sample of exhibition game action. All thoughts to be served with a grain of salt!
Kyler - he looked about like I expected. Didn't set the world on fire, but he can deliver the ball when he needs to. I think KOC went run heavy to avoid contact for his #1, no need to put him in harm's way for a nothing game. He needs all those #1 camp reps to get better timing down with his targets and keep learning this offense. He should look better as the season goes on and that stuff settles in.
JJM - well surprisingly I thought he looked better in one area, which was delivering the ball on time from a clean pocket. Last year he struggled even with that. His accuracy is still suspect but again, maybe a little better from a clean pocket.
The problem is when he's under pressure. He honestly to me looks like he might have regressed and he was already really bad. His go-to move when it turns chaotic is a sidearm sling from his upper body, with no base or discernable footwork at all. This is going to be an off-target ball or an interception 90% of the time in the NFL.
I don't know how you fix that, even if he were playing all the games and he's likely to just be practicing. I maintain that the best thing for him would be to go play in the CFL or USFL where he could get constant live reps for some team and learn to play under pressure. If that learning is possible, I don't know if it is.
Carson - was exactly what I expected. This guy can look like an all-pro on one play and a total dud on the next. He is a roller coaster and it's not game to game or even half to half or series to series, it's like every other play. He's good enough to backup but he's not leading anyone to a title if he has to take over a season for an injured guy. Right now I'd put him slightly above JJ for #2 but honestly that is only because he can in fact deliver under pressure more often than JJ and has a ton of experience in the NFL.
Max Gopher - ya gotta love our little Golden Gopher but he seems somewhat snakebitten. He gets in a game and throws the underhanded pick six in Seattle, or has 3 net yards passing against Detroit, or plays one series today and goes out with an injury. I think he eventually will do a KOC path and become a QB coach somewhere. I like him but I don't think he's destined to even be a backup in the NFL.
Well said @IceRatz16 .
McCarthy was so-so in the first preseason game, definitely wanted to see more from him but he didn’t throw a ton. Hopefully more next ps game if he’s still on the team by then 😔
Could say the exact same thing for Kyler too about his performance on Saturday.
IceRatz16 wrote:
Exactly what I've been saying as well. Fans seem to think that throwing fastballs your entire life and then suddenly being asked to take velocity off the ball is some simple adjustment you can make overnight.
Did anyone ask Brett Favre to take something off his throws? 😂 The guy fired the ball all over the field for his entire career. He also threw a ton of touchdowns...and a ton of interceptions. That was who he was as a quarterback.
What I saw in this game was McCarthy trying to do almost the exact opposite of what he's done his entire life. He's trying to take velocity off the ball, add touch and throw more changeups instead of fastballs. Some of those balls are going to look like floaters while he's figuring it out.
And here's the part that seems to get lost: that adjustment doesn't just affect the throw. It affects timing, anticipation and your entire internal clock. If you've spent your entire life knowing exactly how long it takes your fastball to get from Point A to Point B, and suddenly you're changing the speed of that pitch, you're going to have to recalibrate everything around it.
You're literally asking a 23-year-old QB to alter something that has been ingrained in him his entire life. That's not going to magically become second nature after a handful of practices and preseason snaps.
And I'm not saying the adjustment will work. Maybe it won't. Maybe his accuracy will continue to be a problem. Maybe the coaches ultimately decide he isn't the guy. But I don't understand how anyone can watch him trying to make a fundamental adjustment to his throwing mechanics and conclude that we've now seen the finished product.
I'm probably one of the most impatient people here, but for some reason I still see something in McCarthy that makes me want to see more. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll get much of that now with Murray at the helm and a fanbase ready to dissect every McCarthy throw while simultaneously celebrating Wentz for looking "poised" after throwing lame ducks into the end zone and having two balls knocked down at the line. 😂
If Wentz makes a couple nice throws, it's "veteran poise." If JJ makes a bad throw while trying to change something he's literally never had to change before, it's "he's broken."
That's the part I just don't buy.
Well said. That is why I said let him go. Trade him. He will be a really good QB, and things will slow down for him by about 25. If you watch his press conferences, you can tell he is just too young yet. We don't have that time. Something will click; he just has too much of what it takes to be an NFL QB for him not to have a good career. It just won't be for the Vikings.
This is a surprising thread. I would not have guessed there were this many people who actually blame KOC for McCarthy's failure.
KOC didn't tear JJ's meniscus, forcing him to miss his rookie season, didn't restrict his diet forcing him to lose 30 lbs in recovery, didn't sprain JJ's ankle, concuss him or break his right hand. He didn't conjure the "nine" character for him or griddy into the end zone. Nor did he sail all those quick outs.
1st round QBs fail. Richardson, Lance, PIckett, Wilson, Fields, Haskins, Rosen. Maybe even Stroud. It happens. You can blame KOC all you want for drafting the next one on that list (maybe). KOC should be held accountable for that because no one will ever convince me that he wasn’t the loudest voice in the room at draft time.
Beyond that, what do you blame him for? Not being patient enough? Gimme a break. Bringing in a 2X Pro Bowl veteran for $1.3M who ended up displacing him? Are you out of your *&#%ing minds? Thank GOD he did that.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
—George Orwell
Your boy won, and he deserved to. Not sure why we can't move on from the fact that at 1.3 M it was the best choice for us. You're right. You were right. Now I just hope you are right on him having his best year and we get to the SB. I have 25 racks depending on it.
MaroonBells wrote:
This is a surprising thread. I would not have guessed there were this many people who actually blame KOC for McCarthy's failure.
KOC didn't tear JJ's meniscus, forcing him to miss his rookie season, didn't restrict his diet forcing him to lose 30 lbs in recovery, didn't sprain JJ's ankle, concuss him or break his right hand. He didn't conjure the "nine" character for him or griddy into the end zone. Nor did he sail all those quick outs.
1st round QBs fail. Richardson, Lance, PIckett, Wilson, Fields, Haskins, Rosen. Maybe even Stroud. It happens. You can blame KOC all you want for drafting the next one on that list (maybe). KOC should be held accountable for that because no one will ever convince me that he wasn’t the loudest voice in the room at draft time.
Beyond that, what do you blame him for? Not being patient enough? Gimme a break. Bringing in a 2X Pro Bowl veteran for $1.3M who ended up displacing him? Are you out of your *&#%ing minds? Thank GOD he did that.
When the head coach says "Rest easy Vikings fans, we have our franchise QB" and then a season later bails on him... he deserves some blame. And I say that as one of the bigger KOC supporters on here (who also flies the JJM flag proudly)
MaroonBells wrote:
Beyond that, what do you blame him for? Not being patient enough? Gimme a break
Do you not hold him accountable for the widely reported alienating of McCarthy after the knee injury, or just throwing him out there week 1 at Chicago after being out of action for almost two years, or failing to adjust his offense or even trying to establish a run game behind a banged up offensive line that got EVERY QB KILLED last season? Not just McCarthy EVERY quarterback because his ego wanted to run the chuck and duck. O'Connell has done McCarthy no favors and saying otherwise is disingenuous at best.
MAD GAINZ wrote:
When the head coach says "Rest easy Vikings fans, we have our franchise QB" and then a season later bails on him... he deserves some blame. And I say that as one of the bigger KOC supporters on here (who also flies the JJM flag proudly)
This is where I am at as well. Something happened. If you allowed JJ to dictate the coaching and development process, if that is "actually" what happened, then that raises a lot of flags about what kind of Leader you are. KO has all the control in that and what steps he takes. All I am saying, JJ did enough on his own to be where he is at, but KO needs some of the concern to allow HIS 10th overall pick not to listen to him.
MAD GAINZ wrote:
When the head coach says "Rest easy Vikings fans, we have our franchise QB" and then a season later bails on him... he deserves some blame. And I say that as one of the bigger KOC supporters on here (who also flies the JJM flag proudly)
Why? Because he was wrong? I don't remember what I said after that Raiders game, but I'd bet it was something similar. But a whole bunch of shit happened between that Raiders game and now. And none of it was anyone's fault, except for maybe KAM who wanted go with the QBOARD over paying Sam, even though he was told (reportedly) by KOC that McCarthy wasn't ready.
How did KOC bail on McCarthy? By bringing in competition? You're the coach, what would you have done? Just curious.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
—George Orwell
It wasn’t awful, it just wasn’t what it should’ve been.
— 𝙆𝙖𝙨𝙚 (@verysadvikings) August 17, 2026
It all comes down to JJ’s timing. I don’t think he’s the lost cause everyone makes him out to be, but if he can’t get his timing down, all his quality traits don’t matter. He won’t be successful. https://t.co/EbUDTtPvge
LIVE WELL ~ LOVE MUCH ~ LAUGH OFTEN
MaroonBells wrote:
This is a surprising thread. I would not have guessed there were this many people who actually blame KOC for McCarthy's failure.
KOC didn't tear JJ's meniscus, forcing him to miss his rookie season, didn't restrict his diet forcing him to lose 30 lbs in recovery, didn't sprain JJ's ankle, concuss him or break his right hand. He didn't conjure the "nine" character for him or griddy into the end zone. Nor did he sail all those quick outs.
1st round QBs fail. Richardson, Lance, PIckett, Wilson, Fields, Haskins, Rosen. Maybe even Stroud. It happens. You can blame KOC all you want for drafting the next one on that list (maybe). KOC should be held accountable for that because no one will ever convince me that he wasn’t the loudest voice in the room at draft time.
Beyond that, what do you blame him for? Not being patient enough? Gimme a break. Bringing in a 2X Pro Bowl veteran for $1.3M who ended up displacing him? Are you out of your *&#%ing minds? Thank GOD he did that.
KO drafted the youngest QB ever and is evidently flabbergasted that the kid has some maturity issues, and couldn't run the Cousins/Darnold offense right outta the box.
Forgetting JJM for a second when I read in other threads that the Vikings will be drafting a QB in 2027..... I used to dream of such things. Getting the franchise guy! Finally! Now the thought of drafting another one just gives me headaches. We won't be forward-thinking enough or bad enough to draft anyone elite/plug-n-play, so now we're counting on KO and McCown to develop one again? That's something neither of them has ever done. We're probably better off with Baker or Kyler or some other aging midlevel guy.
pattersaur wrote:
KO drafted the youngest QB ever and is evidently flabbergasted that the kid has some maturity issues, and couldn't run the Cousins/Darnold offense right outta the box.
Forgetting JJM for a second when I read in other threads that the Vikings will be drafting a QB in 2027..... I used to dream of such things. Getting the franchise guy! Finally! Now the thought of drafting another one just gives me headaches. We won't be forward-thinking enough or bad enough to draft anyone elite/plug-n-play, so now we're counting on KO and McCown to develop one again? That's something neither of them has ever done. We're probably better off with Baker or Kyler if he somehow rises up.
Legit. KO drafted a QB that couldn't even have a beer legally after his National Championship win. A QB that is in his THIRD year but still the SECOND youngest QB in the NFL. Instead of working with him on it, he really did turn his shoulder. You may want to adjust your style according to your player, Big Guy. KO wouldn't adjust to a young QB like that. He forced a square peg into a round hole, and it didn't work??? Shocked. That is on KO.
pattersaur wrote:
KO drafted the youngest QB ever and is evidently flabbergasted that the kid has some maturity issues, and couldn't run the Cousins/Darnold offense right outta the box.
Forgetting JJM for a second when I read in other threads that the Vikings will be drafting a QB in 2027..... I used to dream of such things. Getting the franchise guy! Finally! Now the thought of drafting another one just gives me headaches. We won't be forward-thinking enough or bad enough to draft anyone elite/plug-n-play, so now we're counting on KO and McCown to develop one again? That's something neither of them has ever done. We're probably better off with Baker or Kyler if he somehow rises up.
Doesn't sound like he was flabbergasted at all, considering he reportedly tried to convince KAM that JJ wasn't ready. There were a few reasons KAM was fired, but I think we can all agree that was likely the biggest one.
Look, we were all on this board at the time. To say that a vast majority of people on this board wanted to go with the QB on a rookie deal (QBOARD) over paying Sam would be a gross understatement.
But now the people who wanted to go with the kid his 2nd season are the same people who are urging patience in his 3rd.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
—George Orwell
See all you started Comet?
I mean, the last thing the world needed was another Viking Qb thread
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
MaroonBells wrote:
Doesn't sound like he was flabbergasted at all, considering he reportedly tried to convince KAM that JJ wasn't ready. There were a few reasons KAM was fired, but I think we can all agree that was likely the biggest one.
My point was-- why draft a young pup if what you want is an old pro? Nix was right there. Maybe Sean Payton really did trick KO and KAM into panic picking /s.
Look, we were all on this board at the time. To say that a vast majority of people on this board wanted to go with the QB on a rookie deal (QBOARD) over paying Sam would be a gross understatement.
Agreed- It's funny how people try to retcon their takes.
But now the people who wanted to go with the kid his 2nd season are the same people who are urging patience in his 3rd.Is that surprising to you? That the folks who liked JJM last year still like him this year? It's not to me. I guess I'm not following.
purplefaithful wrote:
See all you started Comet?
I mean, the last thing the world needed was another Viking Qb thread
Im in the same boat and almost started a thread about it the other day.
KM is the starter
JJM is not.
Deal with it and support your QB1. Nothing you say or ponder will change that. Lets just hope his love of the Vikings and skillset make magic happen. If not you have 17 mondays to piss and whine about it.
SurfnRide wrote:
Im in the same boat and almost started a thread about it the other day.
KM is the starter
JJM is not.
Deal with it and support your QB1. Nothing you say or ponder will change that. Lets just hope his love of the Vikings and skillset make magic happen. If not you have 17 mondays to piss and whine about it.
The only body who can change anyones mind wears 1, 9 or 11 on their chest.
Hurry-up Vikings, we ain't getting any younger!
MaroonBells wrote:
This is a surprising thread. I would not have guessed there were this many people who actually blame KOC for McCarthy's failure.
KOC didn't tear JJ's meniscus, forcing him to miss his rookie season, didn't restrict his diet forcing him to lose 30 lbs in recovery, didn't sprain JJ's ankle, concuss him or break his right hand. He didn't conjure the "nine" character for him or griddy into the end zone. Nor did he sail all those quick outs.
1st round QBs fail. Richardson, Lance, PIckett, Wilson, Fields, Haskins, Rosen. Maybe even Stroud. It happens. You can blame KOC all you want for drafting the next one on that list (maybe). KOC should be held accountable for that because no one will ever convince me that he wasn’t the loudest voice in the room at draft time.
Beyond that, what do you blame him for? Not being patient enough? Gimme a break. Bringing in a 2X Pro Bowl veteran for $1.3M who ended up displacing him? Are you out of your *&#%ing minds? Thank GOD he did that.
I don’t think it’s about “blame”, at least for me (I know everyone loves to blame and everyone wants blood) but rather about trying to figure out what is actually happening. I think that argument could be flipped the other way, and it’s what most people are doing. Most people (in the media, on reddit, etc) are thinking about JJMs performance in 2025 as “The media told me KOC is a QB Whisperer … JJM was bad … therefore JJM is fully to blame .. because if a QB Whisperer is training someone who fails that is the only conclusion that works unless he’s not actually a QB Whisperer”
I like KOC, but some things that I think are weird anomalies:
Cousins was worse his first year in the system than the years under Zimmer
Cousins stated that it took him about 7 games to get comfortable in KOC’s system
Darnold mostly praising the 49ers for his career rejuvenation
McCarthy not getting any preseason reps in 2025
The Vikings not running the ball in 2025, despite having a very acceptable ypc. Running the ball is traditionally something teams do to help out a young QB.
JJM damn near leading the league in depth of target in his first chunk of games.
Hockenson was frequently the only available receiver to dump off the ball if JJM was under pressure, despite Hockenson being asked to chip the edge before going out on the route and being too slow to do both.
KOC trying to change JJM’s mechanics midseason, when all common sense would suggest that he was already drowning in reading the defense (which is normal for young QBs in their first starts).
KOC still never had any plays that look like a more traditional quick game, despite JJ and Addison having high levels of quickness and great route running. KOCs plays are known for taking a long time to develop.
I like KOC. I think he’s learning how to develop a QB in the same way that JJM is learning how to be a QB. I think McCown is in the same boat but is even rawer in his coaching career. I think he called the exact same offense for JJM as he called for Darnold and Cousins. Nothing about the 2025 offense looked like something that was meant for a first time starting QB. I think everything was compounded by the injuries to the Oline and the injuries JJM experienced. I think with a solid Oline, and a full season, we probably would have gone through all those growing pains in the first half of the season and ended the season more on a high note, but the injuries cut the amount of games, so we only saw the growing pains. I don’t doubt that JJM probably needed some humbling after winning at every level and probably has some maturity issues being so young. I’m sure that plays a part into it. I hope JJM uses this experience to really hone in on what the team needs out of a starting QB, beyond mechanics and timing and what not. I hope his humbling period in his development lead to him being more hungry and focused and less angry about what was taken from him.
medaille wrote:
I don’t think it’s about “blame”, at least for me (I know everyone loves to blame and everyone wants blood) but rather about trying to figure out what is actually happening. I think that argument could be flipped the other way, and it’s what most people are doing. Most people (in the media, on reddit, etc) are thinking about JJMs performance in 2025 as “The media told me KOC is a QB Whisperer … JJM was bad … therefore JJM is fully to blame .. because if a QB Whisperer is training someone who fails that is the only conclusion that works unless he’s not actually a QB Whisperer”
I like KOC, but some things that I think are weird anomalies:
Cousins was worse his first year in the system than the years under Zimmer
Cousins stated that it took him about 7 games to get comfortable in KOC’s system
Darnold mostly praising the 49ers for his career rejuvenation
McCarthy not getting any preseason reps in 2025
The Vikings not running the ball in 2025, despite having a very acceptable ypc. Running the ball is traditionally something teams do to help out a young QB.
JJM damn near leading the league in depth of target in his first chunk of games.
Hockenson was frequently the only available receiver to dump off the ball if JJM was under pressure, despite Hockenson being asked to chip the edge before going out on the route and being too slow to do both.
KOC trying to change JJM’s mechanics midseason, when all common sense would suggest that he was already drowning in reading the defense (which is normal for young QBs in their first starts).
KOC still never had any plays that look like a more traditional quick game, despite JJ and Addison having high levels of quickness and great route running. KOCs plays are known for taking a long time to develop.
I like KOC. I think he’s learning how to develop a QB in the same way that JJM is learning how to be a QB. I think McCown is in the same boat but is even rawer in his coaching career. I think he called the exact same offense for JJM as he called for Darnold and Cousins. Nothing about the 2025 offense looked like something that was meant for a first time starting QB. I think everything was compounded by the injuries to the Oline and the injuries JJM experienced. I think with a solid Oline, and a full season, we probably would have gone through all those growing pains in the first half of the season and ended the season more on a high note, but the injuries cut the amount of games, so we only saw the growing pains. I don’t doubt that JJM probably needed some humbling after winning at every level and probably has some maturity issues being so young. I’m sure that plays a part into it. I hope JJM uses this experience to really hone in on what the team needs out of a starting QB, beyond mechanics and timing and what not. I hope his humbling period in his development lead to him being more hungry and focused and less angry about what was taken from him.
I'll just say after this debacle, that the last combo I'd ever entrust with the development of another young rookie quarterback is KOC/McCown. KOC obviously needs a veteran to run the chuck and duck as he sees fit. He's never developed a quarterback...ever, and clearly lacks the skillset and patience to do so. Nevermind being able to identify one. So I don't want to hear shit about "drafting a quarterback in 2027" if the current coaching regime is still in place.
SurfnRide wrote:
Deal with it and support your QB1. Nothing you say or ponder will change that. Lets just hope his love of the Vikings and skillset make magic happen. If not you have 17 mondays to piss and whine about it.
I mean....this really. But fans are going to fan in various ways. Some seem to triple and quadruple their post counts when things are shitty, piling on...
So if things get off course, there'll be plenty of time to bitch. But in the meantime, let's hope we are moving toward a competitive and fun game Week 1 against hated Green Bay at home.
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