Quote: @"greediron" said:
@"KingBash" said:
@"pumpf" said:
@"KingBash" said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
And that you would rather burn calories justifying certain bigotry over another.
I'd like in on this calorie burning thing. I've got about 50#s to lose. If I type really fast will that help?
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"KingBash" said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"KingBash" said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Oh my God, just stop playing the victim. Who called you a Nazi? Who called anyone a Nazi? I bring up right wing resurgence in Europe and you all play the Nazi card. What's up with that?
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"
I don't excuse the behavior of Antifa, but it's important to remember that on one side you have people who hate and on the other, people who are opposed to that hate. Both are wrong in their methods, but if I were going to choose a side, it's not hard for me to decide which one. As a big fan of Jesus, Ghandi and MLK, I think the anti-racists and anti-fascists would be more effective if they chose a non-violent approach, but then people often ask why the Jews didn't fight back as they were herded to their deaths. What would it look like if they had?
Wait... so it's OK for Antifa to hate... because they're doing it in the name of stopping hate? That makes about as much sense has destroying property and physically (and verbally) attacking other people in the name of peace. Or staging massive, month-long protests... and then leaving behind so much waste / trash that it takes millions of dollars to clean it up... in the name of taking care of the earth.
As for the rest of your analogy, it falls apart because you are presupposing things not in evidence. You BELIEVE that Trump is going to be bad for America; therefore any form of resistance is- in some way- justified. Well, I BELIEVED (and I think I've been proven correct- at least about a couple of things) that Obama was going to be bad for America. Does that mean that I had the right to gather of mob of like-minded individuals and attack those who disagreed with me? Would I have had the right to persecute / terrify my state senators because they are Democrats? For that matter, are you saying that it's now OK to blow-up abortion clinics... because the "ends justifies the means". That DOES seem to be your argument; yet I don't think that you would support that philosophy for all people; just those that you agree with.
OK, Jackson Pollock, you're mixing a LOTTA different paint colors with your brushes. There's a difference between hate and violence. What's more, I don't think Antifa is much about peace. Or the environment. That one made me laugh out loud. The rest of your post is ridiculous. Almost schizophrenic.
Quote: @"AGRforever" said:
@"KingBash" said:
@"pumpf" said:
@"KingBash" said:
Nazis and white supremacists are evil, yes. There can't be other answer.
Why do people insist on taking this stance? Fuck 'em! Nobody is excusing the behavior of antifa, but let's all agree as a benchmark starting place, fuck Nazis. Seems pretty reasonable to me!
2 things. First of all: it's hard to condemn all Nazi's... when that is what liberals call every person who disagrees with them. In other words, about 50% of the country are Nazi's. So... if we are going to agree that all Nazi's are evil, then we have to agree that all conservatives are evil. MAYBE if liberals (and conservatives, for that matter) stop calling everyone with whom they disagreed "Nazi's" we could actually come to some agreement on how we SHOULD feel about the German socialist party.
Second of all, what makes "white supremacists" worse than other bigots? If Adolph hates black people because of the color of their skin... how is that existentially different from John hating someone because they are a Christian? Or Jane hating Judy because she's a conservative... or a Trump voter?
How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
White supremacists can kiss my behind. They are terrible human beings. Everyone is a human regardless of their skin color. Now can the left not call me a Nazi bigoted gang rapist because I believe my children are better off not in the public school system or that I believe everyone should have to work for their dinner?
What are you talking about?! Who's attacking you? I'm not. We're ONLY talking about the guys that yell out "Jews will not replace us" and play dress up for rallies. I don't care about your kids or your dinner. Holy shit, the political discourse in this country is ludicrous!
Quote: @"KingBash" said:
It's just so telling you'd rather burn your calories on this topic than just agree that white supremacists are douchebags.
How are white supremacists worse than somebody thinking Christians are assholes? Or somebody hating Trump voters? I dunno, one group believes Jews, blacks, hispanics, etc. are subhuman and should be exterminated whereas perhaps John or Jane are disgusted with religious hypocrisy and Trump's mental illness... Yeah, one in the same!
I will say that- without unequivocatation. They are d-bags. But, if you were being honest, you would know (and I presume that you do) that not all White Supremacists want to exterminate other people. There are some... but there are some who want anyone that they "hate" to be exterminated (I assume you read about the teacher from Rosemount, MN who tweeted that she was hoping that someone would "take one for the team" and assassinate Kavanaugh). How many times have liberals referred to conservatives as "subhuman"? You seem to think that there is only one group out there that is capable of "hatred"... or else you think that some hate is worse than others. I would say that the hate that leads to actual (not imagined) violence is the "worse" kind of hate. So... which group is out there attacking (or intimidating) others right now? It ain't a "conservative" group...
Also, it is telling that- rather than acknowledging that bigotry is wrong- you actually DEFENDED John and Jane (in the hypothetical situation). And therein lies the problem with modern day liberalism: they do the very thing that they accuse others of doing... but defend their own actions because (for them) it's justified. You're a pretty intelligent (and honest) guy; yet you apparently can't see what you just did: which was to defend the bigotry of some- because you happen to agree with them. I, on the other hand, reject every form of (actual) bigotry. (I had to add the word "actual" because- again- liberals will label anyone who disagrees with them as a "bigot".) White Supremacists and Neo-Nazis ARE bigots. So was Fred Phelps and his band of pharisees. So are the people that I know who speak ignorantly about other races. I reject them all as filled with ignorance and hate. And- when given the chance- I speak publicly about them and denounce them.
I have yet to see anyone (not just here, on this website... ANYWHERE) denounce Antifa.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
Quote:How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Oh my God, just stop playing the victim. Who called you a Nazi? Who called anyone a Nazi? I bring up right wing resurgence in Europe and you all play the Nazi card. What's up with that?
It's funny; one could've said the same thing to all the liberals who are complaining about Trump. As far as who called me a Nazi... well, I'm sure you have. After all, I'm a conservative- and all conservatives are Nazis. And you wouldn't be alone. Many of your friends in the MSM have used their bully pulpits to say the same. Also we've been called ignorant, racist, homophobic, hate-filled bigots. Would you like me to link a few examples for you? Maybe, if I have the time, I'll even find a few examples from the posters here...?
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
OK, Jackson Pollock, you're mixing a LOTTA different paint colors with your brushes. There's a difference between hate and violence. What's more, I don't think Antifa is much about peace. Or the environment. That one made me laugh out loud. The rest of your post is ridiculous. Almost schizophrenic.
Yes, yes, I know: when YOUR side does it, it's OK. That's what makes my post so non-sensical to you. I mean, OF COURSE it's OK when liberals do "bad things"; it's justified!
Antifa may not be about peace (although who knows? they just seem to be about intimidation and violence). But I'll bet I can find protests for peace that turned violent... just like I can find protests that were meant to encourage good stewardship of the environment that left a large "footprint" of trash behind. In other words: they are doing the very things that they say they are opposed to. But, again: their intentions were good... and, more importantly, they hate the right people. So it's all good.
As for the difference between hate and violence; yep, there's a difference. I assume that you'd say that violence was worse. Well, you can accuse Trump (or anyone else) of "hating" others... but right now there's only one "side" that is openly advocating for violence against those with whom they disagree. Gee, who could that be? (I know... it's OK when THEY do it...)
A video from a week ago where a pro-abortion activist attacks a pro-life activist. Notice the sign that the pro-abortion activist is holding: "Policing a woman's body is violence". So what does she do? Commit an act of violence, of course: because it's not really violence if you think the other side deserves it.
Quote: @"pumpf" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
Quote:How about if we say that ALL forms of bigotry are wrong?
Oh my God, just stop playing the victim. Who called you a Nazi? Who called anyone a Nazi? I bring up right wing resurgence in Europe and you all play the Nazi card. What's up with that?
It's funny; one could've said the same thing to all the liberals who are complaining about Trump. As far as who called me a Nazi... well, I'm sure you have. After all, I'm a conservative- and all conservatives are Nazis. And you wouldn't be alone. Many of your friends in the MSM have used their bully pulpits to say the same. Also we've been called ignorant, racist, homophobic, hate-filled bigots. Would you like me to link a few examples for you? Maybe, if I have the time, I'll even find a few examples from the posters here...?
OK, you can climb down off of your cross now. I doubt anyone on this board has called you anything of the kind.
But WHAT IS UP with this rampant playing the victim? Kavanaugh is the victim, not Ford. Men are the real victims of the metoo movement. Several women accuse Bill O'Reilly of sexual harrassment, but he goes on and on about how HE'S the victim, Nazis in Charlottesville were the victims, Christians are victims, the white people embarrassed by "living while black" videos are the victims...God, it's endless.
Quote: @"MaroonBells" said:
@"pumpf" said:
@"MaroonBells" said:
@"
I don't excuse the behavior of Antifa, but it's important to remember that on one side you have people who hate and on the other, people who are opposed to that hate. Both are wrong in their methods, but if I were going to choose a side, it's not hard for me to decide which one. As a big fan of Jesus, Ghandi and MLK, I think the anti-racists and anti-fascists would be more effective if they chose a non-violent approach, but then people often ask why the Jews didn't fight back as they were herded to their deaths. What would it look like if they had?
Wait... so it's OK for Antifa to hate... because they're doing it in the name of stopping hate? That makes about as much sense has destroying property and physically (and verbally) attacking other people in the name of peace. Or staging massive, month-long protests... and then leaving behind so much waste / trash that it takes millions of dollars to clean it up... in the name of taking care of the earth.
As for the rest of your analogy, it falls apart because you are presupposing things not in evidence. You BELIEVE that Trump is going to be bad for America; therefore any form of resistance is- in some way- justified. Well, I BELIEVED (and I think I've been proven correct- at least about a couple of things) that Obama was going to be bad for America. Does that mean that I had the right to gather of mob of like-minded individuals and attack those who disagreed with me? Would I have had the right to persecute / terrify my state senators because they are Democrats? For that matter, are you saying that it's now OK to blow-up abortion clinics... because the "ends justifies the means". That DOES seem to be your argument; yet I don't think that you would support that philosophy for all people; just those that you agree with.
OK, Jackson Pollock, you're mixing a LOTTA different paint colors with your brushes. There's a difference between hate and violence. What's more, I don't think Antifa is much about peace. Or the environment. That one made me laugh out loud. The rest of your post is ridiculous. Almost schizophrenic.
Yes there is. One is a feeling, the other an action. One has traditionally been a crime, the other only recently. Hate often leads to violence as we see in many recent protests. But what is troubling is that you seem to be saying hate is worse.
I hate the Packers. That is fine and not criminal. But if I defaced or vandalized a packer fan's property, that would be a crime. But somehow, now certain feelings make a crime "worse" in the eyes of many. Murder is sourced in hate, but now if the hate is of a certain type, it changes the law. That is bogus. But at least tell me you aren't saying that violence done in the supposed anti-hate is not as bad as hate itself?
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