Quote: @Nichelle said:
It happens.
The Invisibles: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID - The Washington Post
Patricia Brown couldn’t prove her identity. On a Saturday morning in May last year, she rushed into the basement of Washington’s Foundry United Methodist Church, frantic that she would miss its I.D. Ministry hours. She took deep breaths as she reached the bright-yellow room crowded with narrow tables, where people sat poring over papers. Without valid identification, she couldn’t get housing or work, her food stamps or medication. She sat in a metal chair beside me, wiping away sweat from her forehead. The volunteer across from us looked concerned as Brown reviewed an intake checklist: Social Security card? No. Birth certificate? No. ID? Expired.
“So, we don’t have anything?” the volunteer asked. No. Nothing.
I’d seen situations like Brown’s many times. I volunteered at the I.D. Ministry from January 2015 to March 2016. Two Saturday mornings a month, I would help the ministry’s poor or homeless clients navigate the bureaucracy of acquiring government identification. For most people, replacing a lost driver’s license or other ID is an inconvenience but not an ordeal. For Foundry’s clients, however, the path to an ID is more like a high-stakes test of endurance and resourcefulness.
Brown, 61, a former receptionist, had taken three buses from Northeast Washington to the church at 16th and P streets NW, but it was clear she had been on a longer journey. After her mother’s death in April 2014, Brown lost the apartment they had shared. She returned from the grocery store one day to find her belongings on the sidewalk. She had been evicted.
“I tried to ... salvage what I could, but I was by myself,” she said. Her Social Security card and birth certificate were among the things lost that day. Since then, she had been floating from couch to couch among acquaintances, paying her hosts what she could and trying not to overstay her welcome. When I asked about her current housing, she said only, “It’s not a good situation.”
Brown had spent a month visiting D.C. government agencies, looking for guidance on how to regain her identification without success. A nonprofit steered her to Foundry, where she hoped to secure the trinity of documents she needed: her birth certificate, a Social Security card and a valid, government-issued photo ID. Like many of the other people who visit Foundry, she was, by the time she arrived, frustrated and desperate.
Washington isn’t the only place where acquiring identification can be difficult. As of 2006, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice, up to 11 percent of U.S. adults had no government-provided photo ID. Since then, federal requirements for IDs have grown tougher, contributing to a loop that can help keep people trapped in poverty. For poor Americans, IDs are a lifeline — a key to unlocking services and opportunities, from housing to jobs to education. And in states with strict voter ID laws, the lack of an ID can hinder voting. “This is a huge issue for people who are homeless and poor in general,” says Maria Foscarinis, executive director of the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty. “Without an ID, basically you don’t exist.”
The Rev. Ben Roberts, Foundry’s director of social justice ministries, oversees its ID operation. When he took over the nearly two-decades-old program in 2013, he renamed it Imago Dei, Latin for “image of God.” Tall and bearded, the 31-year-old has a skepticism of government efficiency that’s rooted in experience. Without obstacles, the ID process could take about two weeks, but for many clients, he says, it lasts two to three months. “It mostly has to do with finding the time, energy and motivation to go to places and be told, ‘No,’ constantly,” he explains.
For Roberts, identification is a moral and religious issue. “If you’re not allowed to have a job because you don’t have an ID, then that’s a serious theological problem,” he argues. “You’ve said not only do they not exist on paper, you’re denying them their piece of the image of God.”
That Saturday, though, she listened as the volunteer described what the District would require for an ID. First, a person like Brown who had no documents would need a physical exam and a signed medical record. (There was a free clinic in Adams Morgan.) The signed medical record would allow her to get a Social Security card, which would be mailed to her within two weeks. She would then have to take the card and a Foundry check for $23 to the District’s Vital Records office to get her birth certificate. Vital Records could issue it based on the card alone, but the office reserves the right for its staff to request more documents to establish identity. Without a valid photo ID, the office recommends three original documents, among them: census records, probation papers, voter registration and an employee ID. Once she had the Social Security card and birth certificate, then she could go to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The DMV requires proof of residency. Utility bills, leases and mortgages count among the qualifying documents. Without one in her name, Brown would need her host to supply a document to the DMV, with a photocopy of a valid ID and a signed form allowing Brown to claim the address. Otherwise, Brown would have to visit one of a handful of approved nonprofits or the D.C. Department of Human Services to be certified as homeless. Only then could she get her ID, which costs $20, and which Foundry also covers.
Brown rested her head on her fist. “I remember a time when it was real easy to do this,” she said. The volunteer nodded in commiseration and handed Brown a proof-of-residency form. Brown said, her voice trembling, “You’ll probably have to go through the homeless verification process.” She left with two envelopes full of instructions, forms and checks.
More at link in beginning of post. There is a lot more in the article but it's long. Still worth the read, though. Just because you don't know anyone like this or can't imagine this life, it doesn't mean there aren't Americans who are in this situation.
Sorry, this lost me at 11% of US adults have no govt issued photo ID, I just dont buy that for a second. Maybe if you go into a homeless shelter or drug rehab clinic you could support that figure, but across the board I find that number to be very hard to believe.
Quote: @JimmyinSD said:
@ Nichelle said:
It happens.
The Invisibles: The cruel Catch-22 of being poor with no ID - The Washington Post
Patricia Brown couldn’t prove her identity. On a Saturday morning in May last year, she rushed into the basement of Washington’s Foundry United Methodist Church, frantic that she would miss its I.D. Ministry hours. She took deep breaths as she reached the bright-yellow room crowded with narrow tables, where people sat poring over papers. Without valid identification, she couldn’t get housing or work, her food stamps or medication. She sat in a metal chair beside me, wiping away sweat from her forehead. The volunteer across from us looked concerned as Brown reviewed an intake checklist: Social Security card? No. Birth certificate? No. ID? Expired.
“So, we don’t have anything?” the volunteer asked. No. Nothing.
I’d seen situations like Brown’s many times. I volunteered at the I.D. Ministry from January 2015 to March 2016. Two Saturday mornings a month, I would help the ministry’s poor or homeless clients navigate the bureaucracy of acquiring government identification. For most people, replacing a lost driver’s license or other ID is an inconvenience but not an ordeal. For Foundry’s clients, however, the path to an ID is more like a high-stakes test of endurance and resourcefulness.
Brown, 61, a former receptionist, had taken three buses from Northeast Washington to the church at 16th and P streets NW, but it was clear she had been on a longer journey. After her mother’s death in April 2014, Brown lost the apartment they had shared. She returned from the grocery store one day to find her belongings on the sidewalk. She had been evicted.
“I tried to ... salvage what I could, but I was by myself,” she said. Her Social Security card and birth certificate were among the things lost that day. Since then, she had been floating from couch to couch among acquaintances, paying her hosts what she could and trying not to overstay her welcome. When I asked about her current housing, she said only, “It’s not a good situation.”
Brown had spent a month visiting D.C. government agencies, looking for guidance on how to regain her identification without success. A nonprofit steered her to Foundry, where she hoped to secure the trinity of documents she needed: her birth certificate, a Social Security card and a valid, government-issued photo ID. Like many of the other people who visit Foundry, she was, by the time she arrived, frustrated and desperate.
Washington isn’t the only place where acquiring identification can be difficult. As of 2006, according to New York University’s Brennan Center for Justice, up to 11 percent of U.S. adults had no government-provided photo ID. Since then, federal requirements for IDs have grown tougher, contributing to a loop that can help keep people trapped in poverty. For poor Americans, IDs are a lifeline — a key to unlocking services and opportunities, from housing to jobs to education. And in states with strict voter ID laws, the lack of an ID can hinder voting. “This is a huge issue for people who are homeless and poor in general,” says Maria Foscarinis, executive director of the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty. “Without an ID, basically you don’t exist.”
The Rev. Ben Roberts, Foundry’s director of social justice ministries, oversees its ID operation. When he took over the nearly two-decades-old program in 2013, he renamed it Imago Dei, Latin for “image of God.” Tall and bearded, the 31-year-old has a skepticism of government efficiency that’s rooted in experience. Without obstacles, the ID process could take about two weeks, but for many clients, he says, it lasts two to three months. “It mostly has to do with finding the time, energy and motivation to go to places and be told, ‘No,’ constantly,” he explains.
For Roberts, identification is a moral and religious issue. “If you’re not allowed to have a job because you don’t have an ID, then that’s a serious theological problem,” he argues. “You’ve said not only do they not exist on paper, you’re denying them their piece of the image of God.”
That Saturday, though, she listened as the volunteer described what the District would require for an ID. First, a person like Brown who had no documents would need a physical exam and a signed medical record. (There was a free clinic in Adams Morgan.) The signed medical record would allow her to get a Social Security card, which would be mailed to her within two weeks. She would then have to take the card and a Foundry check for $23 to the District’s Vital Records office to get her birth certificate. Vital Records could issue it based on the card alone, but the office reserves the right for its staff to request more documents to establish identity. Without a valid photo ID, the office recommends three original documents, among them: census records, probation papers, voter registration and an employee ID. Once she had the Social Security card and birth certificate, then she could go to the Department of Motor Vehicles. The DMV requires proof of residency. Utility bills, leases and mortgages count among the qualifying documents. Without one in her name, Brown would need her host to supply a document to the DMV, with a photocopy of a valid ID and a signed form allowing Brown to claim the address. Otherwise, Brown would have to visit one of a handful of approved nonprofits or the D.C. Department of Human Services to be certified as homeless. Only then could she get her ID, which costs $20, and which Foundry also covers.
Brown rested her head on her fist. “I remember a time when it was real easy to do this,” she said. The volunteer nodded in commiseration and handed Brown a proof-of-residency form. Brown said, her voice trembling, “You’ll probably have to go through the homeless verification process.” She left with two envelopes full of instructions, forms and checks.
More at link in beginning of post. There is a lot more in the article but it's long. Still worth the read, though. Just because you don't know anyone like this or can't imagine this life, it doesn't mean there aren't Americans who are in this situation.
Sorry, this lost me at 11% of US adults have no govt issued photo ID, I just dont buy that for a second. Maybe if you go into a homeless shelter or drug rehab clinic you could support that figure, but across the board I find that number to be very hard to believe.
So, the issue is that the article references a study that "up to" 11 percent don't have government issued ID's?
Quote: @greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
An ACLU fact sheet from May 2017 claims that 21 million Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID, citing a 2006 survey from the Brennan Center for Justice. About 11 percent of the 987 voting-age American citizens surveyed said that they did not have a current, unexpired government-issued photo ID. Eleven percent of the adult citizen population in the 2000 Census amounts to 21 million Americans.
Good to know the source. So a survey of less than 1000 people. and 11 percent didn't have a "CURRENT ID". So your entire premise is bullshit.
Thanks for stepping up and admitting it.
That's how survey's work, Greed.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
No that's not true at all. Let's say you're 80. There are a few 80 year olds who don't look under 21. Or maybe they don't drink at all. And maybe they don't smoke, don't drive and their DL expired 10 years ago. l I guess they have no voice in America. Cuz gotta cut down on those 1 in a every million fraud cases.
Again, everyone knows what this is about. Stop pretending to be stupid.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
Did you intend that to be as bad as it sounds?
Quote: @"BarrNone55" said:
194 mass shootings in 130 days this year: let’s make it easier to buy guns
16 alleged cases of voter fraud out of 160 million votes in 2020: let’s make it harder to vote
The GQP
194 mass shootings this year, but talking about the shooters as the actual trigger-pullers is somehow less interesting than blaming inanimate objects.
Meanwhile, let's strip rights from the legit owners, while also marginalizing their police and making longer response times!
Because, it's all about the optics!
-The Modern Left
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
No that's not true at all. Let's say you're 80. There are a few 80 year olds who don't look under 21. Or maybe they don't drink at all. And maybe they don't smoke, don't drive and their DL expired 10 years ago. l I guess they have no voice in America. Cuz gotta cut down on those 1 in a every million fraud cases.
Again, everyone knows what this is about. Stop pretending to be stupid.
Why would you care? Old people vote republican??
I work with some of those old people that you describe. They have valid ID. They go to doctor offices and cash SS checks.
Quote: @Nichelle said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
Did you intend that to be as bad as it sounds?
Everyone says requiring ID to vote is racist.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html
Quote: @MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
An ACLU fact sheet from May 2017 claims that 21 million Americans do not have a government-issued photo ID, citing a 2006 survey from the Brennan Center for Justice. About 11 percent of the 987 voting-age American citizens surveyed said that they did not have a current, unexpired government-issued photo ID. Eleven percent of the adult citizen population in the 2000 Census amounts to 21 million Americans.
Good to know the source. So a survey of less than 1000 people. and 11 percent didn't have a "CURRENT ID". So your entire premise is bullshit.
Thanks for stepping up and admitting it.
That's how survey's work, Greed.
I just surveyed every adult in my household. 100% have valid photo ID. If you extrapolate that out, 100% of Americans have valid ID.
Surveys work that way Maroon.
Quote: @AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ AGRforever said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ greediron said:
@ MaroonBells said:
@ JimmyinSD said:
Can anybody put out a good reason not to have a picture voter id requirement? You need IDs for literally everything else in the country but its to demanding for the right to vote? Make the argument please.
And therein lies your biggest problem: the common assumption conservatives make that everyone is, or at least should be, like them.
They should be white, employed, a driver, rural or suburban and they can't figure out why someone would not have, for example, a drivers license. That's just one form of ID but it's by far the most common.
Well not everyone is like that. Young, old, poor, minorities, urban dwellers who take transit don't always have drivers licenses. Other forms of ID perhaps, but not necessarily.
In an effective Democracy you want as many people to vote as possible. By enacting voter ID laws, millions of Americans would be unable to vote. And let's be honest. Everyone knows what this is about. It's obviously not about reducing the 16 of 16M fraud cases. We all know the vast majority of the voters it would disenfranchise are voters who vote democratic.
With that mind, let's hear your argument for it.
They don't buy alcohol? Or do any number of other things that require IDs? Yet they vote? I really find that a stretch. The young can't vote anyway, so that excuse is out the window.
The large elephant in the room is, of that vast majority of democratic voters, are they legal voters?
Who knows if they buy alcohol. I suspect many don't. We're talking about the elderly, inner-city folks who don't drive and take transit. You'd have to ask them why they don't have an ID, but 21M legal US citizens don't have a government issued ID. If you disenfranchise those folks and we no longer have an effective democracy.
Such a bullshit blue goggles response. I’m sure somewhere, somehow there is some disenfrachised poor poor black person who woulda coulda, shoulda voted democrat but I’m equally as convinced we’re also looking at just as many or more bullshit pro-democrat votes happening from voting twice or voting where they shouldnt be.
People without ID basically dont exist. You need an ID to doneverything. Its not just booze. Its smokes, banking of any type, driving, being employed. Not being employed. Collecting any type of Ss. Renting an appartment, owning a place. Pretty much if youre alive and have any desire to collect or disperse money you have an ID.
No that's not true at all. Let's say you're 80. There are a few 80 year olds who don't look under 21. Or maybe they don't drink at all. And maybe they don't smoke, don't drive and their DL expired 10 years ago. l I guess they have no voice in America. Cuz gotta cut down on those 1 in a every million fraud cases.
Again, everyone knows what this is about. Stop pretending to be stupid.
Why would you care? Old people vote republican??
I work with some of those old people that you describe. They have valid ID. They go to doctor offices and cash SS checks.
Oh, you work with some old people who have ID. LOL. You are a trip.
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